Faith, Confidence and Integrity

[Sandra Dodd]

When I go for philosophical discussons, I like to go all the way. :-)

One of the rarely-discussed issues with unschooling as it is shared and learned is where to go for information and how to weigh who knows what.

"There are no experts," I always heard, but what I took that to mean is there's no such thing as a degree in unschooling. No one has a master's or PhD in it.

Years and years into it, though, I hear variations on that assertion that go more like "No one knows more about unschooling than anyone else," and someone assured a group of people that the only experts on unschooling were John Holt (an always childless long-dead guy) and Pat Farenga (NICE guy, plays piano, I like him; but he has three kids all of whom have gone to school at least for a while, for reasons unknown and untold and not really any of my business, unless I want to decide for myself or advise others whether I consider him "an expert").

What I myself like when deciding whose advice to take is how thoughtful and open and honest the people giving the advice are. I like to know what their background and experience is, and whether their families are happy. I like people whose writing is entertaining and I like people who are willing to answer questions.

I like people who have spent a lot of their own volunteer time helping other unschoolers. And I know LOTS of such people, many of them in person, and it's wonderful. I've really enjoyed seeing their kids grow up, some up close and some at a distance. I LOVE that the internet lets us share photos, and that I can see other people's kids and their writing and their artwork. I like seeing photos of other unschoolers' houses and yards and all.

Sometimes a new unschooler has clarity and the ability to communicate things in clear ways to others. Sometimes someone who's been doing it for years is lacking credibility for some reason or combination of reasons, or maybe they just can't clearly verbalize what they know (and words are our main tool here, even when people can get together in person or trade photo sites).

Somehow each person decides which music to like, which movies, books, friends, and advisors. I made waffles this morning with two different recipes laid out on the counter. As with any real inquiry or research, I think people need more than one source!

Maybe it goes right back to "make the better choice," which can only be done when you have considered two or more options.

[laura bowman]

i always appreciate people who are willing to go all the way. even if it sometimes scares me or intimidates me, i know i'm going to learn something.

someone once told me that good parenting just came natural to me. i had to laugh, and almost cry a little at the compliment of it...because of how hard i've had to work to get where i am as a mother. all the baggage and such i've had to get rid of. i think of all the "experts" i've turned to in that journey. i've read books, websites, talked to people who i felt knew more. i had to surround myself with lots of options and ideas and opinions. pool the ones around me that spoke the most to my heart and let them guide me.

when someone is asking for advice, i sometimes hold back a little. i wonder whether or not i have any business speaking up. i'm learning to express myself more and more since starting this network. i am finding my confidence. even in the midst of my knowing how far i still have to go, i know that what i have to contribute about MY journey is valid and important and might be useful to someone else's journey.

oh yeah, i've also made waffles using more than one recipe. pancakes too! and muffins, and cake, and pizza dough and...

[Amy Graber]

Your 3rd paragraph made me think...there probably will be an unschooling degree someday. College's are great a figuring out ways to make $$. There didn't use to be rocket science degrees, or video game degrees, but now there are! Heck to become a lawyer all you had to do in the past was be an apprentice and then pass the bar. Now there are LAW schools! :)

I went to college to learn to teach, more like to learn how to manage a classroom. But since I started this life I have learned way more about real learning! I love reading about people mistakes and triumphs. I too love seeing the way other unschoolers live. So much so, I've actually thought about starting a family blog. One of these days...I just need about 10 more hours in each day! But thank you all who take the time to do it!

amy g
iowa

[Katherine]

I recently picked up the Naomi Aldort's book Raising Our Children Raising Ourselves. It is about raising children, but the emphasis is on raising ourselves so that we're any good at raising children.

Maybe it's just where I'm at in my personal growth right now, but I'm amazed at how the simple idea to Separate our own thoughts and emotions from those of our children goes right to the heart of what I've been needing to do all this time with Karl.

That idea to separate our baggage from our children's immediate experience of life in the moment they are living it goes directly to the heart of making "the better choice." Leaving our baggage alone for the moment gets a lot of bad stuff out of the way while we do the work of relating to our children. It makes way for other choices, which have a much better chance of being more than just one better option than what we usually fall back on.

[Katherine]

Sustainability degrees. I want one. ;)

[Stephanie]

I love all of the information at my fingertips. I have been reading about unschooling from several groups for several years now. As I changed and grew I moved on to new groups. I love having your site and Joyce's site with so many topics in one place.

I am one of those people that lives and loves unschooling, I can talk about it easily. Writing isn't my strong suit so when I started my blog that was a way for me to just get my thoughts down.

[Ren]

You're going to participate in the Blog Carnival then right?



Sleepless in TN....;)

[Sandra Dodd]

Someone I knew here just briefly left to go to Tennessee to study sustainability or something like it at some university. He and his wife had been missionaries and they want to go back out and help people farm better.

[Jules]

In pre-Internet days, people had a limited set of places to go for information. Experts were the ones with letters in front of or behind their names, the ones who published books, the ones who logged countless hours working on their craft or honing their skills. Experts were the ones hired by the government (uh, like in the Dept. of Education). Encyclopedias were authoritative sources. People probably put their trust in such sources because they either didn't feel they had a choice or they didn't want to go to the trouble to seek out different sources.

Nowadays, anyone can set up a blog or website, self-publish a book, promote themselves as an authority on any subject. And while the Internet makes it easy for anyone to offer themselves as a candidate for being an expert, the Internet also gives the audience the chance to weigh in on whether the the quality of the expert's advice is worthwhile or not. It's not one-sided anymore.

I think this results in a higher quality of content over time. People can contribute and have a discourse over a topic, resulting in more clarity. That's the ideal anyway. And Google rewards those sites in which the content is most meaningful, useful, entertaining or relevant. Well, then there's also Internet "stars" like Tila Tequila; popular for simply being the most popular person on MySpace.

All that being said, I think it still ultimately boils down to how far people are willing to go out of their comfort zone. Even if the quality of the advice is good, the advice itself may fall outside of what people are interested in hearing. I'd guess that most people, when first starting to learn about unschooling, are coming at it from a homeschooling/education perspective, and so the whole-life aspect of it is pretty far out, even if the advice is coming from a bunch of happy, open and sharing families. It took me a few months of reading and digesting the info on the lists before I really "got it". In my gut I knew there was depth and understanding behind the advice being dispensed, and so I stuck with it. But there's also happy, open and sharing families who others look to for advice but who may advocate limiting media or food or whatever. In NY, there's a Families Unschooling in NY (FUNNY) list that used to be more radical unschooling-minded, but over time became less so. And so some of the members left to form the Radical Unschoolers in NY (RUNNY) list. There's people on FUNNY who have no interest in joining RUNNY. That's OK. What's important is that there are places now to turn to, and we're less captive to what a "panel of experts" tells us is best for us and our families.

[Tammy]

" Sometimes a new unschooler has clarity and the ability to communicate things in clear ways to others."

Oh lord, How I wish I had the ability to communicate clearly! Even now that I'm not that new to unschooling anymore , I find I still can't express myself as clearly as I see others do. I think that's a true gift . And believe me I am thankful for those of you who can do that !

I do think there are experts in unschooling , Its just maybe everyone has their own ideas who the experts are,based on their personal experience with them ( either in person or online) I know when I first found unschooling Sandra and Ren and Joyce and a few others were the post that really helped me understand. Even when I was TOTALLY wrong about things ( which happened a lot :) ) It was those who I felt were the most honest and helpful even if it meant calling me out about something. It helped me learn and in turn helped my children.

So I do think there are experts , You may just get a different name depending on the experiences of who you ask.

[Ren]

It would make me nervous to be called an "expert". I dislike that word. Maybe it's because of the attachment some people have to the word, or maybe it's the way people willingly give up their own inner guidance for some "expert" advice. It all makes me cringe. Even with the makeup artistry, I wouldn't consider myself an "expert" because I have SO much left to learn!

I do workshops and speak publicly and freely give advice (and also charge for advice) online both in the unschooling and the makeup artistry worlds...but an "expert"? NO WAY. It makes me cringe.

Maybe it's my own baggage about the word "expert". I think it puts a person in a position where they aren't humble enough to be open about their failures, it makes them seem lifted up in some hierarchal order (which really makes me go "Ick") and it leaves less room for being open to learning.

I am another parent learning and awakening every day. My children are my "experts" and I trust them more than anyone to show me the way.:) I am grateful to have been a part of many other people's unschooling journey, just as Sandra and Joyce and Pam and Rue and Kathryn and Kelly and other folks were part of my own journey (and still are).

We are our own best experts if we are willing to truly examine our ideas and beliefs and be willing to change. Someone shared a quote the other day....don't know who it belongs to; "I have lots of ideas but no beliefs" is the idea...can't share it word for word.

What I really question, is people who willingly put the word "expert" or "parenting expert" after their name. Really? You think you're an expert? Now THAT takes a lot of balls!

[laura bowman]

oh, that was me that said that to you. i was semi-quoting a line from 'dogma'...an amazing kevin smith film. they were referring to religion and how religions were started by people taking a bunch of good ideas and turning them into a belief system. ideas can be changed, beliefs are harder to. wait, i'm gonna look it up...

Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good?
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should be malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth and new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant.

rufus was played by chris rock...so you've got to picture him saying this stuff. that movie is filled with great quotes. go watch it!!

[Sandra Dodd]

"Expert" seems so final, so "done."
But Ren, I've sent people to talk to you, or recommended something you've written. I didn't just say "Find any old unschooler, they're all the same." I didn't say "She's an expert." I sent them because they were nearer to you geographically or philosophically or something (different different times) and sometimes because of your religious beginnings and sometimes because of the documentation of your changing views or SOMEthing real.

Maybe that's the deal. If you need someone for a particular purpose, you find someone with that particular qualification.

I had an idea, reading some of the stuff above, about "experts." More and more, people who are working on masters' degrees write papers on unschooling. A couple I knew of were thesis or final project level, but more were just one-shot research papers.

Research involves going to many different sources and then synthesizing some patterns from the information, and reporting findings. People do gain expert status through research. So it's possible that someday someone will have a PhD in the history of alternative education, and that will make him or her an expert.

There are people who are experts in the history of the U.S. who have never even lived here. There are people who are experts in the history of Christianity who have never been and surely don't want to be. Conversely there are people in any country who know nothing about local history, and Christians who know nothing about the history of Christianity.

So... what about unschooling?