unschooling food on a budget

[Lynda]

How do you try to ensure it works out fair for all of you if you have limited resources? For example, if you have a big bag of sweets and one person wants to eat lots of them right away, but others want to save them for later in the week. Do you divide them up so each person has their share of the sweets to eat when they want? How do you balance the need to eat perishables before they go off with letting everyone eat what they want? At the moment my kids want to know how many each other have had to decide how many to have themselves, which I think is fair to make sure someone doesn't leave one of the others without, but it also seems to work the other way - that if M has had 3, K will think she has to have 3, even if she would have been happy with 2 if she hadn't know what M had.

I can see how the principle would work if there's a plentiful supply of food, but I'm trying now to understand how it translates to our circumstances. I hope my rambling has made sense!

[Maya]

What comes to mind as I read here is that one can't make someone else *feel* generous. One maybe can make someone do a generous behavior, but one can't make someone feel it. And if someone is not feeling it, the behavior isn't going to spring out of them. They can fake it, adults fake it all the time--but little kids probably won't. On top of this, feeling generous springs naturally out of feeling abundant and full. So, if someone is feeling deprived, generosity is probably not going to happen.

I think, if it were me, instead of looking for ways to get my kid to want less, or trying to get him or her to be willing to wait, I'd be looking for creative ways to try to get my kid more of what she wanted. It doesn't cost that much to get two bags of the sweets in question, or three, heck. Buy fewer perishables at a time, shop twice a week, something like that. If one kid asks how many the other kid has, maybe say, "Oh, did you want more?" And dump a big handful of whatever it is in front of her. If you spend an extra ten bucks on their favorite stuff that week, that isn't much money, but it's an awful lot of happy faces and good will that maybe leads to someone feeling truly generous. But the parent has to go first. You be generous to them first.

[Pamela Sorooshian]

Another consideration is to give our kids the chance to get the good feeling of being generous. I love when parents are handing kids something yummy and they ask, "Do you think your friend would like some?"

-pam

[Sandra Dodd]

-=- One maybe can make someone do a generous behavior-=-
I don't think so.
If a parent makes a child "be generous," the parent is in effect taking some of the kids' food (or time or toys) away. It's deprivation, in effect, by someone else.

It seems more likely to model for kids that it's okay to take things away from others.

[Bekah]

I have been very interested in this conversation about "fairness' and "generosity' etc... mainly because now that River is 13 months and walking and making his preferences known there has become a bit of a struggle in our home over the "sharing" issue. Food, toys, books, everything.
Micah lived in a huge world of abundance because for 5 years it was all his...the snacks he liked, the toys, etc. Now he has baby brother who wants to play with that and eat those. :)
I try to respect Micah by helping him protect special things from River...we have moved some books into Micah's room when he was getting upset about the ripping and chewing that babies will do and have left some in the front room that could stand rougher treatment.
I try to help remove special things as well...card collections or puzzles...we have made a shelf in Micah's closet that he can get to but not River.
But back to the topic...food...and the toys are related as well.

Lately Micah has been upset when I offer River something that he eats. No problems when baby was eating pureed peas..lol...but whoa hold on he can eat my pudding and my crackers etc. Sometimes Micah will help himself to a snack and River sees and starts wanting some and Micah does not want to share...even if I try to put a little in a seperate container for River..i hear "but that is mine"..and i admit to getting a little frustrated because "well no the food in this house is for everyone."

And River loooves to eat in the pure enjoyment of the 1 year old!!

Okay so I unschool Micah and let him follow his interests but now I find that River is more restricted than Micah ever was. He gets frustrated and bursts into tears when Micah takes something away from him or closes the door on him to prevent entry into his room. Micah won't share his snacks so River gets upset. An incident not long ago when Micah had been watching a DVD for the second time and River toddled to me with a Baby Einstein music CD and pointing at the stereo...well Micah is old enough to know how to defer isn't he?...to let River had a turn with something? But it was tears on both sides because River wanted music now...furiously pointing at the stereo and Micah not wanting to turn the TV off.

Basically I am feeling frustrated here because I hope that my kid will be kind and generous...especially to his little bro...and then I hate that I feel that River is getting more restricted than I like.

Any thoughts?

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-well Micah is old enough to know how to defer isn't he?...to let River had a turn with something?-=-

Does he have to "defer" every time his brother wants something? Do you have another CD player?

When you choose foods and decide how to present them, think ahead of what's easily shared.
http://sandradodd.com/monkeyplatter
I made one of these for Holly and her boyfriend just two days ago.

[Bekah]

Well I guess by "defer" I mean Micah is old enough to understand that concept of "turn taking"...i get that little kids even at 5 don't really "get" it...that make sense?
But little kids at 13 months reeeaaaly don't get it!!
I do the monkey platter thing and have snacks out that Micah can reach any time during the day...but I have to keep them out of River's grasp because he is 13 months old and if we don't want to be eating off the floor it's best if I take a little for him and put in another container or on the high chair tray.
My main "gripe" is Micah throwing a fuss when I do this because "that's mine"
I'm hoping for some enlightenment from you mommies with 3,4,5...heck even 7 kids...will this pass as he gets "used" to this new phase in River's development? How can I help him with the idea that the food is here for everyone?

[Lynda]

==it's best if I take a little for him and put in another container or on the high chair tray.
My main "gripe" is Micah throwing a fuss when I do this because "that's mine"==

Can you do 2 containers, so Micah can have one as well? I know he can have things from the main platter, but if you're making one that's *River's*, perhaps he'd like to have one that's *Micah's*? And he can then add to his container from the main platter when he wants. Soon enough you'll just be giving them plates & saying 'help yourselves'. Perhaps Micah could be given 2 containers & asked to put some out for himself & his brother.

[Bekah]

Sometimes i will be poring two bowls of cereal from the box and Micah will fuss and say "those are my Cheerios" and i can see how he thinks this since Chad (husband) and i hardly ever eat Cheerios so up until baby brother they were in a sense "his" cheerios. It's not that i am giving River food from Micah's plate or anything the problem seems to be that River is eating food period.
Of course when River is having something Micah dislikes ..cottage cheese comes to mind...there's no fuss...and everytime Micah gets a snack then River wants it too and will follow Micah around wanting it and then the fussing starts when i put River in the high chair and give him some. Even if i get it fresh out of the box. I just really feel strongly that there is no food ownership... that anyone can eat or not anything that is in here to eat.
Am I right in this assumption?

[Melissa]

I think because my kids are all two years (or less) apart, we've never had that problem. There have always been people to share with...sorry I'm no help.

The one issue we've had now that several kids are older, is them buying their own candy and having Ava get into it. I've always empathized ("OH gosh, it must feel bad to have spent your money on candy and have someone take it without asking!") and asked plans ("What do you think should happen now?" and then offered ideas ("Do you want to hear what other people have done in that situation?", always with "I would be more than happy to buy you some more of those candies when we head to the store" writing it down on the list right then) Now Emily will set out a bowl of her own candy in her room for other's to have, and then ask me to buy some more for her.

I do have a friend who has two bins, one for each of her children. Their food goes in their bin. Is it worth it to buy two boxes of cheerios and put Micah's name on one? It's $2 for a little peace for him. Just emphasize that you know it's hard to share everything, so you wanted to make sure that he had his own cereal and some of his own snacks. "These foods are for sharing, but I can get you your own snacks if you don't want to share right now!"

[Sandra Dodd]

-=- I just really feel strongly that there is no food ownership... that anyone can eat or not anything that is in here to eat.
Am I right in this assumption?-=-

Apparently not. Micah thinks it's his.

I'm guessing either Micah came up with this belief on his own, or there were times when you told him "Here's your food" and it somehow sounded more heavy on the "your" than on the "food."

Maybe you and Micah could go for a leisurely trip to the grocery store sometime when River is asleep at home with Chad or someone, and maybe go to a different store than you usually go to, and pick some new and more unfamiliar foods for you all to try and share. Don't tell him what you're doing (don't say you're trying to change his perceptions or focus), but when you talk about the foods don't say "should we get this for River?" but maybe "Do you think River would like this too?" or "I know dad would like this; does it look good to you?" Casually talk about the food in ways that indicate that you figure when it gets home it will be for whoever wants it.