Is unschooling best for our kids, or for us as parents, or is there a difference?

[Debbie Penley]

I've been pondering some thoughts today, so this will be long!

It started with a discussion in another forum about CIO (cryinig it out) with a baby to get him to sleep. The mother had heard that CIO meant that the child eventually comes to the realization that no matter WHAT they do or HOW hard they cry, no one will come to them. And she didn't want her baby to think that, so she's not CIO. But she resents having to rock the baby to sleep for a length of time, and often again during the night.

One of the responses (of course they dismissed the idea of the child giving up on help coming his way...) from another mother was that her children (NOT CIO) don't nap well, wake often at night, and often wake up unhappy. But not so with her CIO friend, whose children nap for 2 hours, sleep all night, and wake up smiling and talking.

I have found this to be true for me, as well...I co-sleep and nurse on demand, throughout the night, and my kids have never napped well.

Which got me to thinking about WHY I do what I do, from Home birthing to Unschooling....

I don't necessarily think that our kids will turn out BETTER because of the decisions I'm making. In other words, I've seen healthy formula fed babies (I was one!) and my babies, all exclusively breast-fed, still got sick and an occasional ear infection. Not all co-sleepers are confident and my kids still get more diaper rashes when they wear cloth....

So WHY do I do what I'm doing? Do I unschool because I believe my kids will be more successful? Smarter? Happier?

Sometimes homeschoolers will wave the facts about inventors and geniuses who were homeschooled...as if every child who learns at home will turn the world upside down...

When I first became a parent, I wanted to give my child the best of EVERYTHING, knowing I technically couldn't. I can't afford all organic food. We can't afford the "perfect" house, if one can even determine WHAT makes a perfect living space...And I had no idea how to determine what success in life actually meant. I knew it wasn't having money. Or a house. Or STUFF. Or even education. And yet, there must be SOMETHING I could do to make my child happy.

And so I did what came naturally to ME. I trusted my child to know what she needed, and I gave it to her to the best of my ability as long as it wasn't harmful to her or anyone else.

I think that even if I had formula fed her, she would still be the child she is today. I think that even if I had birthed her in a hospital, she would still be the child she is today. I think that even if she slept in a crib, and I HAD let her cry, that she would most likely still be the child she is today. Because *I* am her parent. Because *I* am still who *I* am, she would still be who she is because I'm the one raising her.

And here's where the philosophy comes full circle, if you can follow my strange thought pattern:

But it's BECAUSE I am who I am that she WAS birthed at home, nursed, and slept beside me. It's BECAUSE I'm her mother that she will be unschooled. It's because *I'm* the one parenting her that she will turn out to be who she is...

Now, I'm not saying that she doesn't have her own personality and all that...what I'm saying is that it dawned on me that those of us who unschool, or homeschool, or any kind of school don't have a monopoly on the brightest, happiest kids. And most parents love their children just as much as we do. There are public school kids who are well-adjusted and turn out as good as can be. And I bet there are some great parents behind them. And of course there's always the exception with the bad parents and kid who overcame, just as there's the vice versa.

But in the end, the reason we choose to unshcool may have less to do with wanting our kids to succeed, than to do with OUR desire to be the BEST parents WE can be, and finding that we can do no less than completely trust our child to know what's best for themselves.

I really DO wish my child slept through the night, took 2 hour naps, and woke up happy EVERY time. But the only way I KNOW of insuring this (short of having a naturally happy-go-lucky baby instead of the high-needs ones I did!) would be to let them cry until they give up hope.

And this is something I simply CAN NOT do. Not because I think my kid will be haunted by it forever. Most kids who CIO seem fine. You couldn't find them in a crowd and pick them out against the kids who co-sleep. But it's because every fiber in my being will NOT let me listen to my child cry for me and not respond. It's because my instinct demands I affirm his need for me.

And for this reason, I choose to unschool. My kids MAY not be the most intelligent, they may not be the most versatile, they may not be the best ANYTHING.

But they WILL be what THEY want to be, whatever it is. And they will know, beyond ANY shadow of a doubt, that I am ALWAYS there for them and will cheer them on to ANYTHING they should strive for....

And today, as I needed to get away from my kids for JUST a half hour walk by myself....Today, as the twins (14 months) kept climbing on me and crying for goodness knows why (teething? growing pains? just toddler angst?)....Today, when I actually get jealous of the moms who CIO or the parents who send their kids to school for the free time they get in return...

Today I reaffirmed MY reason for taking the road less traveled...

Deb

[Sarah]

"Out of curiosity, what difference do you see? "

I look at things differently than I did four years ago when I was a new mom. I remember then when I'd look at behavior, label it 'good' or 'bad', and judge the parenting based on that.

Now, not so much. Now I look at the child themselves, their temperament, what their behavior is 'saying'. It's easy to tell which children are hungry, tired, seeking approval, seeking connection. It's also become easier to see which kids, though their behavior may be conventionally labeled 'bad' are actually well-adjusted, secure kids who are expressing their needs because they feel safe in doing so.

So the difference that I see in my nieces and nephews is how they react to situations. They feel safe working through their emotions, be they 'good' or 'bad' emotions.

Here's a case scenario:
'C', 'S', and 'L' are my Hannah's age. C has always been a 'high-needs' child who would thrive in a radical unschooling lifestyle. Instead, he was born to parents who believe in corporal punishment and have spanked him since he was around five months old, the spankings, arm yankings, and demeaning increasing with his age. The parents don't spank at get-togethers since several of us SILs would go ape on them, but it is a daily occurence in his life. CIO, it goes without saying (but I will anyway, lol), was par for the course. At two months old, he was put in bed at 8 pm and not touched until 6 am the next morning when he went to a daycare for the day. His behavior is 'out of control'. He is begging for a connection - any connection - and validation. When he and Hannah behave the 'same' (crying, for example), there is a noticeable difference in what they are looking for. As a side note, his happy emotions are curtailed as sharply as his sad emotions since his dad doesn't like noise of any kind.

L is a little girl whose mother is adamantly anti-CIO/spanking. She listens to her child better than just about any other mother I know IRL. She's nowhere near radical unschooling, but that child is very confident that her mother will be there for her, no matter what she's feeling. Her crying can sound 'out of control' at times, but her mom is there, holding her, letting her be 'out of control' while her mom deflects comments from relatives about 'discipline' and 'showing her who's boss'. You can see pics of both L (the one with curls) and C (the one running past L's mom) on my blog at http://unprocessedfamily.blogspot.com/2008/09/talent-show.html When we did that talent show, C's mom had dumped both her kids with us and left and they were both (her other son is in a pic farther down that post) soaking up the attention. We give them what we can when we see them.

S, the other cousin I mentioned, is a cousin raised in a CIO house with a very self-absorbed mother who is missing her carefree singleness and wishing she hadn't married so young. S, because of who she is, demonstrates her longing for connection in different ways than C. Instead of 'out of control' physicality, she's emotionally very trying. It's hard for my daughter to be around her because she is mean and, really, quite nasty. It's so sad to see since, as a baby, she was such an 'easy', sweet baby (as were her brothers, who are also harder and harder to be around). It's easier to let her mother explain her parenting than to try to do it myself. hxtp://serenedesigns.blogspot.com/

This is getting too long, so I'll just touch on my sister's kids. She stayed with me for nearly two weeks over the summer on our farm. Her kids are 11, 8, and 6. My sister does not spank, but she did CIO and she has always made 'her time' a priority. She gets two hours a day, just for her, every day, from birth onwards. This time is more important to her than her kids needs should those two collide and the kids have been told that very clearly. Of course, that's couched in "I need 'me time' to

[Valerie]

I put this together for something else... but there is a part in here on the Limbic ~emotional brain~ and it's connection to smell, learning, and memory.

I have been looking at the brain more, lately. I found some info on neuro-plasticity of the brain(some talking points and notes found at thread "chemical imbalance and birth"), life long learning and how to change the brain. I see the connections everywhere and am completely fascinated, maybe even enough to focus my study on this for some time. It has unfolded in a way of understanding why we do the things we do, how people learn, can we change any of it. Watching and being engaged in the learning process with my children has opened my mind to see so much more. My motives are pure, in that it costs me money to stay home with them and be with them, helping them survive and adapt...naturally. I'm not saying making a monetary living isn't pure, just that i'm not driven by acquiring wealth...not sure how to word that....

My most recent info binge was watching Change Your Brain Change Your Life by Dr. Daniel Amen. He says that there are more connections in your brain than stars in the universe. Brains aren't one size fits all and brain disorders are symptoms with a multitude of causes. Today, a normal brain isn't healthy. When we balance three parts of the brain ~ the Pre Frontal Cortex, the Cingulate and the Limbic ~ with forethought and focus we can reverse the trend of a damaged brain.

1. The Pre Frontal Cortex (pfc) is the executive part of the brain...focus, forethought, empathy, impulse control, maturity, learning from mistakes... You ask the question, Why aren't they learning/getting it? There is low activity in the pfc.

* bad habbits are a way for the brain looking to stimulate activity (gambling). Being upset enables you to concentrate. Like my mother who looks for trouble. In a sence it calms her down.

* treatment ~ increase energy/function ~
-write goals... What do you want?
-intense exercise
-low carb, high-protien diet
-focus on positive thinking
-meditation actually activates thoughtful brain, increasing intelligence (maybe, therefore creating less stress)

2. Cingulate is the gear shifter...idea to idea, flexible, seeing options, error detection. When it works too hard, seratonin levels are low and cingulate gets hot...people get stuck (holding grudges and argumentative).

* people that look for errors, rigid, inflexible (not selfish)
* treatment
-reverse psychology
-multiple options
-exercise
-high carb/low protien diet

3. Limbic is the emotional brain...emotions drive us to love and work, bonding, positive/negative thought, process pain, connect with people, process smell and libido.

* when it works too hard people tend to be sad and depressed, attracted to the ANT (automatic negative thought).
* thoughts lie...learn to challenge and correct negative thought
* interesting that processing smell is linked to libido... baby powder is an aphrodisiac for women while cinnamon is for men. Also, smell identification is near memory center(test yours by sniffing strawberries, lemon, pineapple, natural gas)
* treatment
-exercise - increases blood flow
- study shows that zoloft vs. exercise had an equallizing effect, after more time, exercise blew zoloft out of the water...

anyway... it went on to reveal the benefits and met talking points on exercise, diet, getting enough sleep, avoiding toxic chemicals (including pain and anti-dep. meds, drugs, alcohol, too much caffeine), protecting your brain from an impact injury.

Some interesting facts...
- we can grow new neurons! encouraging new brain cell growth. It's never too late (good news for me...having undergone chemo/radiation)
- aerobic and coordination combined increase cerebellum and pfc. (try table tennis)
- you are what you eat (eat from the rainbow)

hope you can digest my notes, haven't fully processed ...

life long learning is a form of exercise for your brain...try something new

[Debbie Penley]

That is pretty cool! I watched the film "Birth As We Know It" and they talk about limbic imprinting, I believe, and how one is born and treated in those first few minutes and hours can affect the rest of their lives. They of course went on to say that if there ARE negatives (in the film the example was a c-section birth or a circumcision) then a parent's love can heal that pain...but the idea is still that our brain forms permanent ideas about life even in those early moments in the womb and the first impression of our world as we are born.

Very interesting.

Deb

[Sylvia Toyama]

that would mean I'll be 46 when my youngest child is 8 years old (I'm 34 now.) It seems sooo far away and sooo old to me (yeah, I know, 46 is not that old ;-) I'm not sure I'll have the stamina to last that long... It makes me want to cry, it makes me want to fast forward until then so I can get some rest... (I might still stop at 2, we'll see what happens.)

****
Hey, now -- I'll be 46 next month and my youngest won't be 8 til January! My oldest will turn 24 the same week. Recently it occurred to me -- okay, it occurred to us before, but just really hit me last week -- by the time our youngest is 'grown' (figure about 20 yrs), I'll have had a child (or 3) in my home for about 36 yrs. Yikes! And my dh, Gary, is 7 yrs older than I am, so he's already over 50 -- with a 7yo. In fact, by the time Dan was born, Gary was 2yrs older than my Mom was when she became a grandmother. Once or twice, someone at the park has mistaken him for Dan's grandpa.

You'll find the stamina somewhere, and they won't be tiny kids forever.
And, like Sandra said, we're old, but Dan manages. We joke with him that he got the old parents!

[Schuyler Waynforth]

[quote]And this is something I simply CAN NOT do. Not because I think my kid will be haunted by it forever. Most kids who CIO seem fine. You couldn't find them in a crowd and pick them out against the kids who co-sleep. But it's because every fiber in my being will NOT let me listen to my child cry for me and not respond. It's because my instinct demands I affirm his need for me.[/quote]

Not crying it out, but co-sleeping. David did a study on stress in children and found that babies who had co-slept grew up into children who had lower stress levels than their non-cosleeping control group. It might not be visible at a glance, but chronic stress can certainly change your health outcomes. There is a gain to not letting a child cry it out. Simon and Linnaea cried so much less than their cribbed and crying it out peers. And they are so much more open to cuddles and affection even now.

Schuyler

[Debbie Penley]

Hmmm. That's very interesting. I can definitely see where that would be true as when I try to picture myself BEING the baby, I can't imagine what it must be like to cry until you just give up. I don't care what they say, I would never be soothing myself....

This isn't anything against you, so please don't take this the wrong way - but what kind of study did he do? I always hate the fact that as a lay person I can never seem to trust any "studies" because inevitably there's another "study" somewhere else that just refutes the first one I read. I begin to wonder if there IS any such thing as an "unbiased" study.

Deb

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-I can never seem to trust any "studies" because inevitably there's another "study" somewhere else that just refutes the first one I read. I begin to wonder if there IS any such thing as an "unbiased" study.-=-

I don't think ANYone should ever "trust" studies, or a book or a website, or a professor or a neighbor just because it exists.

If you look at two or three or five biased studies about something, and if you're thoughtful and have an idea of what you need to know, you can find useful information.

I know some people want to "trust" someone or something, but that's not how critical thinking works. It's not how learning works, nor is it the way to live more mindfully.

[Melissa]

My dad is 56 years old. He would be a much better parent NOW than when I was a child. He's more patient and calm and more willing to let children make choices. I'll always remember him as the dad who always had to be right and took over nearly every project I started because I didn't do it right.

[Katherine]

My dad is 76 now and he's way more relaxed and easygoing. He's always got projects going and we kids were along for the ride, which wasn't bad. We learned a lot, but he got impatient a lot because it was his project and he was in charge of course. ;)

He's recently been helping with his grandson who is maybe dyslexic (like his mom) or something (I dunno). Daniel shuts down completely if pressured to learn material. They're homeschooling the school at home way, so pressure is there automatically. But dad has been great with him. He wasn't like that when I was in school and came home with an unacceptable report card or bad grade that needed signing off on. Not at all.
___

[Debbie Penley]

"I know some people want to "trust" someone or something, but that's not how critical thinking works. It's not how learning works, nor is it the way to live more mindfully."

How DO we learn, apart from trusting others, when it's something we can't verify for ourselves?

I've wondered this in regards to unschooling because I know that there is much information available online or elsewhere, but I don't know how to know whether it's TRUE or not (and true to whom?) Beyond the scope of snopes.com, I'm at a loss...

For example, the civil war as was taught to us who were raised here in the north varies greatly with the civil war (or War of the States!) as it is taught down south. And I think the TRUTH lies probably on both side because there WERE two side to the battle and each saw it from their own perspective.

History is littered with stories doctored up to make a "hero" look better. And I enjoy books like the ones Erik Larson writes because they delve into diaries and newspaper articles from the time period they write about, and a different story emerges than the one we were taught.

Look at a lot of the "inventors." Thomas Edison didn't invent the lightbulb...he helped make AC (or was it DC?) current the common denominator in America and developed a CERTAIN kind of lightbulb more to be more efficient. But we learn "Thomas Edison invented the light bulb" in school...with no mention of the other men tinkering around.

So where do I go, as a mother, as a seeker MYSELF?

When looking up homebirthing, the same thing rang true. One person says "studies show" and then another comes in and says "Statistically" and if I want to make and INFORMED decision based on previous outcomes, what am I supposed to do?

I've started going through some of your web pages, Sandra, so I'm getting bits and pieces, so if it's there, forgive me! But how DO we learn, and what does it mean to live more mindfully.

(and Wow! do you challenge my thinking! I've been up late ever night this past week and into this week discovering new unschoolers' sites as the school year started and I wanted to immerse myself in thinkers that would encourage my own journey with my kids as my first is officially NOT at school with her friends for kindergarten. And it's hard enough to think this late, but you also speak so...precisely and...I can't even find a good word! Anyway, I hope to learn from you...)

Deb

[lissa]

Deb, I just wanted to say that the mere fact that you ponder these questions is such a beautiful thing. Your family is very lucky.

Like you I have many questions about parenting and I find myself doing lots of research and I love to get others feedback.

I think that we can find data or statistic to support any agenda. For me the answers to many of my questions come when I pay attention to how a choice or idea feels. If I read or do something that just really resonates with my soul (or gut) I go with it.

[Valerie]

Unschooling as a whole, mindful way to live is beneficial for humanity.

Sometimes people in general tend to pigenhole. "Pigeonholing has to do with missing opportunities because of careless categorization of individuals when categorization is unnecessary."

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=41453 (food for thought)

When my first son was born he had perhaps what they call colic. I had just turned 21. I stayed home and I did whatever I could humanly, possibly do to help this child. He almost never slept. Maybe my nervous energy was in direct conflict with his well-being. Maybe he felt the mixture of the fear and joy I was feeling at being a new mom, responsible for this precious soul. Eventually, around 10 months, things evened out and we both relaxed.

The brain seems to be very complex. Mans inability to fully comprehend the infinite realm of possibilities is partially what drives us.

"Manifest your inner urges and soul whisperings"...