OK..so help me with...

[Sunfairie]

the TV issue

This is the hardest for me to relax on...

please help me relax here..
it is funny..I am more relaxed with the computer usage, but the TV is not appealing to me....
please don't throw daggers
I really want to learn here....need support
I feel so guilty about my kids watching tv...like we should be doing something that is more "educational" that is with books ,or drawing, or being outside...

[Amanda]

The TV issue was hard for me too. We actually lifted the TV restriction one time when I was sick and just could not get better. The kids spent almost 4 weeks watching TV from 7:00 in the morning to 6:00 at night. PBS's entire children's broadcast. I laid on the couch. Once I felt better we decided not to go back to regulating the TV.

I have worked hard to make it possible to watch TV and play at the same time. We moved the TV from the living room to the playroom. This allows the boys to have their legos while watching. I try to watch at least a little of ever show with them. I am amazed at the questions that come out of even watching something like Scooby Doo. I try to find books based on the characters and read them to the boys. The TV allows them to go places that I could never take them.

I think in our family the biggest change has been that my boys are no longer so obessed with watching TV. It used to be if we went anywhere that had a TV playing they could not tear themselves away. They would miss all the other cool things that were there because the urge to watch was so strong. Now they will get excited about something they have not seen, but the promise that we can check netflix for it, is normally enough to let them move past NEEDING to watch. They can know that the TV will be there later, but the friends, party, playground, museum, etc will only be available for a little while. They can CHOOSE to watch or not, but when I was regulating TV they did not seem to be able to do that.

When I was focusing so much on the TV, so were they. Out lives revolved around watching it. I was always trying to find ways to keep them from it, and they were trying to find ways to get more. Once I relaxed so did they.

Now all that is not to say that I never help them break the cycle of watching a lot of TV. The boys have had colds for the last few weeks and have therefore not been out too much. If (when) they get past them, I will schedule more time with friends and out of the house. I'm sure by them they will be glad to go. For the most part, TV comes in waves at our house. A few days or weeks with lots, and a few days or weeks with very little.

I think the best thing you can do is become their partner in regards to the TV. Find shows that they like. Tell them when they are on. Help them to play while watching, and sit with them as much as possible to answer questions when they come up.

Amanda
Eli 7, Samuel 5

[Bekah]

I understand and honestly I feel it is totally appropriate for you to follow your gut reactions about this...I have struggled in the past about TV and computer use and just realized that at this time I cannot be comfortable with my 5 yo child watching DVDs for hours and then computer games for hours.
Totally not RU I guess...but what has helped me is to install ENUFF PC timers on the computer so that after a certain time the computer automatically shuts down...I talked about this with my son and how much time he would like to be online...he gets about 3 hours a day and no more worry or fuss because that's that... he helps me turn it off and then we do fun things after...he can get on the computer any time and turn it off any time...sometimes he plays for an hour and then gets back on later and some times he wants more time and I can go in and add 30 minutes or more. But I have discovered that he is more accepting of having these time limits than I would have guessed and rarely gets upset when the time is up and doesn't ask for more time very often.
About the TV it helps that we only have basic basic cable...so after a PBS binge for a few days he doesn't ask to watch that for several weeks...he helps look for netflix and has his own collection of DVDs.
I haven't got a real good grasp on limiting TV time yet...I know that most all here believe in letting kids watch as much as they like and I have read the arguments for it but this is still the main place that I can't really agree with. I don't want to be mean and say "NO WAY" ...so I am still having an ongoing discussion with my son and myself and my husband about how to approach this issue.
My son has some sensory integration issues so we really see a deterioration of behaviour after and during use of the TV or computer...it's something that I don't feel comfortable ignoring at this time.

[Tina B/canuckgal]

I have had trouble off and on too with the tv, but have become way more relaxed about it than say a few years ago. My dd LOVES anything visual and tv/computer and I am sure is what they would call a right brained visual spatial learner. She remembers anything she sees, is incredible at those I Spy books, has an eye for detail, etc. I can see why it attracts her, as well as the challenge of online games.

From years of deprogramming myself of what "they" say about tv and looking at what my kids are really learning and doing, I have come to the following conclusions (and at times have to remind myself of these)

1) they don't REALLY LITERALLY watch it all day! Sandra Dodd has a good page or two on this on her website about these fallacies that people say without thinking...I hope she will chime in on here with a link! The kids play and incorporate shows into their playing too (I did the same as a kid...Gilligan's Island and Little House on the Prairie as an example), dd does comic books, helps me with cooking, likes to read, play board games and is more than willing to come places with dh and ds and I. Like Sandra says, all people will get up to eat, stretch, go to the bathroom, and visit other humans in the house, LOL! (I think I am quoting her correctly!?!?!)

2)Studies about tv are done largely on the schooled population. Heck, if you were in school for 6 hrs a day, NO, you cannot afford to watch TV and I can see how "they" would deem it detrimental. Are they watching it to decompress? Is it just "babysitting"? That is different from watching it mindfully with a parent, forming connections and learning experiences (like Little House reruns have led us to getting the books to read which has led to discussions of prejudice and attitudes to natives, world history, what life would be like without our technology, and even contemplating going to a museum...we don't live far from Minnesota/North and South Dakota...etc) which is what most unschoolers I think would do if they see it as a learning resource. I have seen studies that kids watch 4-5 hrs a DAY...how is that possible!??! My kids choose tv out of a myriad of things.

Believe me I understand what it is like to be uncomfortable with the tv...I have been there so many times, but not as much lately. In analyzing my feelings I came to realize that deep down the times that I felt dd was watching "too much" tv it was due to the fact I was feeling disconnected, and there was too long a period that we were in the same house doing each our own things and not really touching base sometimes. Of course then when I saw her on the couch watching it or on the computer, then I could through those glasses only see a child "doing nothing", and the tv and computer became my scapegoat for those feelings and I would only get more uncomfortable and it would be a vicious circle I had a hard time getting out of. Instead I had to take the advice of other unschoolers and watch it WITH her...that has led to amazing conversations and discoveries. Even if it is a show I don't care for (I really don't understand or get Pokemon, LOL!), it is nice just to sit with her, let her tell me what she enjoys, and just focus on seeing her smile and the light in her eyes and just BE with her.

One thing that has helped us through those periods too as I sensed that dd was feeling grumpy and out of sorts with a lack of connections (and I was too) was that after reading before bed we would make a list of 3-4 things for the next day we would want to do with each other. I do the same with ds lately too. Sometimes it is comic book making, going for a bikeride, doing something that looks more "schooly" like doing some math type/dice games that she is starting to enjoy or playing Mad Libs, doing a puzzle, etc. And yes, sometimes watching Fairly Oddparents or playing a dressup game on the computer. It has gone a long way to helping me see that she learns in everything she does and makes wholistic connections unlike I did in school having it all parcelled out in isolated pieces, which totally baffles my sequential-step-by-step brain!!! We also now have to report a progress report 2x a year here, and dh and I both work part time, so this helps us "stay on top of" what the kids are "doing" or I can make a suggestion to dh for something to try or follow up on with them on a day I am working or vice versa.

Hope this helps you! I am sure you will get some other good responses. And don't be too hard on yourself, we are all at different stages in our journeys, you can only continue to learn and grow and just by asking this question and seeking support I can see you are!

Tina, mom to Stephanie (8) and Jonathan (5) here in Manitoba, Canada

[Tina B/canuckgal]

Yes, I found that having a bit more " guidance" helped dd too, as she too has some sensory integration issues as well which are getting better as she is getting older. While I don't have strict limits time wise and then turn it off, as I said in my response below we usually come up with a daily list of "projects" we want to do together, and work it into the rhythm of our day. For example, if ds has a speech therapy appointment, and dd wants to play Lingo Bingo with me, so I might remind her that she wanted to play it and I have a minute now, but we need to do it now perhaps as we need to go soon to the appointment. If not, then we might do it when I got back. Kind of an ongoing negotiation and fine tuning I guess. Just arbitrarily turning it off does not work for her. I try to be mindful and her partner in this though as you are doing for your son.

I do find as she is getting older she is recognizing that sitting at the computer too long gets her antsy and bouncing off the walls...she goes on our indoor tramploine or will come out and push the lawn mower while I am mowing or other "heavy work" stuff. Or I will invite her to that.

Like some other posters said our computer/tv use ebbs and flows here too.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-Sandra Dodd has a good page or two on this on her website about these fallacies that people say without thinking...I hope she will chime in on here with a link!-=-

http://sandradodd.com/ifilet

Thanks for the kind words about that.

There are some dangerous ideas above in this thread. Not dangerous in the send-you-to-the-hospital way, but dangerous in the unschooling-won't-work-as-soon-or-as-well way.

I don't want to summarize what I believe here. I'm not lazy, it's just that I've spent years and years doing that and I've already collected some of the best that other people have written about TV and computer use, and I continue to add to it.

If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't be writing this post right here. If I didn't think it mattered, I wouldn't have a webpage about i t. If I didn't think it was important to relations between parents and children, or that it was six of one and half a dozen of the other (no big deal one way or another), I wouldn't be sending any links at all.

There's no advantage to me personally if people go to these links or not, but there is an advantage to children not yet born if the parents understand better why they think what they think and whether they can consider putting learning above their own comfort, and children's learning above their own prejudices.

http://sandradodd.com/tv

[Katherine]

It is highly educational. Even stuff that's just supposed to be for entertainment purposes only. Does it mean we can't learn when something is billed as "entertainment?"

I've learned so much from art. For many years, family and others told me art was a waste of my energy, time and efforts. Not so. I've learned more from art than from anything I went through in school. I was introduced to it outside of school and then decided to take it up at the university level. I resent all the years that art was limited or kept from me. To me, that was a waste of time.

One interest I have is the art I've been introduced to by watching TV, movies, and DVDs, VHSs, and so on. Lord of the Rings was a huge interest for me for a long time. Amazing stuff and I am in love with the extended version DVD. I got them at long last--- used on Amazon. I ran a Hobbit forum on Delphi to showcase the art mainly and there were writers on there and trivia buffs, movie fans, Tolkien scholars, people who know the languages Tolkien created for his books. It was wonderful. My intro to all that was through TV. I still belong to some Tolkien scholar forums. I'm not a scholar of Tolkien however I am learning so much from that *one* TV ad I saw a few years back. I think it was 2003 when the movies came out. I am still going on that interest in several different directions.

That's just a single example (an ad) out of all the things on TV to enjoy for years to come.

Some people are Dr. Who fans. (Me.) :) Total fiction. Not very real. Love it! I have now come into contact with all kinds of time machine literature, like HG Well's Time Machine for one, which I never read in school. How about just the telephone booths as elevators, time machines, or Superman clothes changer. And there's an actual phone booth painted orange that's been by the highway on I-26 near Erwin /Jonesborough TN for years. Just there alone with greenery all around, like something placed out of time and mind. I wonder who did that? And I wonder if whoever it was knows that it reminds me of Dr. Who?

You can play outside, draw, do stuff with books *and* watch TV. TV can inspire outdoor play. I saw an ad for 3D chalk, got it and then when we had played with that for a while, Karl and I started drawing and building stuff out of dirt, and we ended up talking about how the earth spins on a slanted axis and that's how we get different seasons of the year. Karl made a submarine out of dirt and put a telescope (a stick) at the top. CSI, Neverland, Batman, Pirates of the Caribbean, and any number of other dramas inspire playacting around here.

I wish you could have seen Jackie Chan at the end of a DVD of an animated film he stars in (voice for the main character). The extra features had an interview of Jackie commenting that he has learned so many things from TV. He learned English, for one thing. Jackie is very enthusiastic about TV. He says it has opened the world to him.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-I wish you could have seen Jackie Chan at the end of a DVD of an animated film he stars in (voice for the main character). The extra features had an interview of Jackie commenting that he has learned so many things from TV. He learned English, for one thing. Jackie is very enthusiastic about TV. He says it has opened the world to him.-=-


"Could have seen"?
Where is it? Whey can't we see it now?

Eddie Izzard talks about how much he learned from TV too.

[Andy Cronin]

We're still early in our unschooling career, but I'm really starting to see how things can fall into place if you let them. TV and computer use at our house is basically unregulated. Our oldest is 4 and I'm blown away by what he learns using the computer. His vocabulary has exploded just by him constantly asking us, "What's that say?" His ability to recall the stuff we've read for him is amazing. What's more amazing is that he invites us to use the computer with him. He plays so many different games, and can navigate and use the computer almost as well as we can. With TV, if I try to talk to either of our boys while they're focused on a show, there's no response. Sometimes it bothers me to not get a response, but then I remember that they're absorbing everything that's going on in the show. Often if they've seen a show enough times, they'll just wander away and do other things.

We have a neighbor family that we really like and they send their daughter to a Waldorf school. It's really hard for me to try and grasp their strict no technology rules. Their daughter loves to come down and visit our two boys, but if we don't turn the TV off fast enough, she just stands there in the doorway mesmerized by the TV. We know that she's not allowed to watch, so most of the time we're fine to turn it off until she leaves. Having seen what skills our kids develop utilizing the TV/computer it makes me feel really sad for her. But that's part of being the parent I guess.

It's hard for me to think of an instance where we've had real conflict or issues w/ the use of technology at our house. I imagine it can happen more when transitioning from strict limitations to no limitations..

My 2 cents..

~Andy C.

[Kimzyn]

It depends on how old your kids are, but my family has willingly decided to turn off the tv for a day/weekend/week (depending on the time and age) in order to see what else would happen. If they are slightly intrigued it may give you the space you need to see that they are really capable and have learned lots with and without tv. Then when it comes back in to your life you and they might feel more relaxed about it. That said, we have also had no technology weekends and emerged ourselves in games and crafts. It works if everyone is on board and not coerced.

[Sandra Dodd]

Do you have any no-books days?
No-art or no-music days?

[Sunfairie]

When I was focusing so much on the TV, so were they. .....
I was always trying to find ways to keep them from it, and they were trying to find ways to get more. Once I relaxed so did they.

This is what I face now.....I am trying to figure out a compromise that works for me and them until I able to be more relaxed about it......

[Sunfairie]

My son has some sensory integration issues so we really see a deterioration of behaviour after and during use of the TV or computer...it's something that I don't feel comfortable ignoring at this time.

My son also has SID...and Aspergers ;)
We have him watch his shows with a weighted lap blanket or he sits on a yoga ball and bounces while he wacthes...

so after he has seen a show "educational" or "entertainment" it send him off into his room to build out of K'nex or ask more and more and more questions...books at the library or off on other subjects rooted from the shows.

funny... I just answered one of my own debates on TV..he is learning and gets very excited about it...I never thought of his learning this way until I just typed it....but that is what he does after watching a show...builds plays uses his imagination and what are we without imagination, right?