Can Unschooling Clearly Exist?

[Sandra Dodd]

The writing below was for something on the AlwaysLearning list, but I think it's better suited for this. On that list I called it "Christianity and other cults" but neither title is perfect. It's about the integrity of unschooling itself, and a reminder that people should try to see it as separate from any one set of spiritual preferences.

It's not an easy topic. It won't hurt my feelings if everyone ignores it. It helped me to write it out and try to list the angles from which unschooling has been questioned and criticized, or from which people have said "But you're unschooling--don't you also believe X about (morality/TV/plastic/chickens/ecology)?"

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Christianity has for years had the most effect on homeschoolers who aren't even Christian, in the U.S. anyway. Ten years ago, they were being told they created, owned and operated homeschooling. It wasn't true, but it was reported with feeling, and with statistics, and one tendency of Christianity is they trust that men of God (however self-proclaimed) are telling the truth.

Lately there are another couple of movements (in the US, and maybe it's more widespread) people have jumped into. They too sometimes (too often) assume that all other unschoolers are coming from that perspective too. One group adopts Marshall Rosenberg's stuff in a religious way and come to consider those don't want to side up with the giraffes or the kangaroos to be heathens (or out of the corner of their minds, categorize them as "violent communicators"). The other group wants desperately to believe in Ester Hicks and her imaginary friend, because if they believe those things they can be rich and happy.

A little older than that and less harsh in the assumptions is formalized paganism.

Waldorf is another set of beliefs that can turn cult-like with some people. The best way to get over that one is to read more and more about Rudolf Steiner. (Or don't get over it, but don't try to cram unschooling into that limited area.)

From the point of view of people who like the idea of being surrounded by powerful spirits and "laws" and who like to feel helplessly placed where they are (or worse, powerfully placed where they are by pre-birth contracts), humanistic ideas of genetics and native intelligence and potential for goodness and plain-old cause and effect without cosmic factors probably can seem irritating.

If unschoolers have other religious or philosophies, that's probably not going to be a problem if their own families can figure out how to prioritize the requirements of the situation. If they believe more in one than the other, that will help them in their decision making. If the two coexist smoothly and easily or they can find a source of assistance to tweak their understanding so that they can do both at once, great!

I know there are people on this list with fondness for or deep involvement in one or more of those "come and belong to us!" groups. I don't think of humanism as a group, but some people do and have managed to make a minor counter-religion of it, just as some atheists have, with meetings and literature and I guess they have picnics and social stuff.

I'm not trying to talk anybody out of their spiritual preferences. I just want to say to everyone, as I've said to Christians since I first started having to defend my own unschooling on the *Prodigy user group, that people can homeschool without being Christian. People can unschool without having the overlay of another set of rules and justifications. Not all homeschoolers are "pro life" or vegetarian or believers in a pre-birth waiting room, and it should be remembered that not all other unschoolers believe any particular thing about politics or diet or spirituality.

Just as unschooling works the same way for all kinds of kids, it works the same way within all kinds of side-beliefs (or primary beliefs, if that other belief is larger than unschooling in that family), if it will work at all.

Unschooling works when the parents are open and energetic and creative and love their kids without a set of reasons to suspect them and limit them and hold them back. That works not because I said it, and not because there are laws at work in the universe that draw it out to work. It works because of human nature. If people go with human nature instead of against it when they're in the parents-of-young-children phases, the results are way bigger than had ever been suggested in anything I had read when Kirby was little. I've seen it in many other families whose kids are young adults now. We really, truly are onto something wonderful and it works by itself, once you get it working, in normal houses without magic requirements and without special equipment.

[Ren]

Sounds pretty Taoist to me.;)

[Sunfairie]

Thank you for this Sandra...so much good heavy stuff coming from you today...
I really appreciate your work, passion, for unschooling.

[Meredith]

....another set of beliefs that can turn cult-like with some people.

"Taking Children Seriously" (TCS) is one of those philosophies, like NVC, where I've seen people get dogmatic, caught up in the form of the thing. I like some of the ideas of TCS, I like the idea of "common preference" but know that in many cases, in my family, compromise and delayed gratification can work just as well and more frequently. There have been a few heated arguements discussions on Always and Basics over the years with some people caught up in the idea that compromise isn't as good or respectful as "common preference".

Just as unschooling works the same way for all kinds of kids, it works the same way within all kinds of side-beliefs (or primary beliefs, if that other belief is larger than unschooling in that family), if it will work at all.

I don't know any radical unschoolers (irl or online) who have a strong belief that children are essentially "bad" in some way - either in a good-vs-evil way or a perfect-vs-flawed way. I've seen parents online struggle with those ideas in terms of setting limits - "children need limits or they'll run roughshod all over you" sorts of arguements. That's a philosophical assumption some parents struggle with for a long time, even going so far as to explain that every single human interaction involves setting limits in some way.

We really, truly are onto something wonderful and it works by itself, once you get it working, in normal houses without magic requirements and without special equipment.

One of the ideas I remember having to get over was the idea that since my house wasn't a "normal" house (and I didn't like to think of my kids as normal kids), I had to keep doing what I was doing. It was the only thing that worked, could ever work. We were just special, you know. Pttttttttttt! I try to remember that when someone new shows up on a list and tries to explain how she has to have this rule, that limit, or the other punishment because her kids are different. It helps me to be compassionate and not scream at the keyboard. The keyboard never listens anyway.

Its a weird idea, this "my kid is special" philosophy. It sounds good on the outside. Of course every child, every human being is unique and special. The weird part is using that idea to justify sticking to the most mainstream attitudes about parenting. Do you know what I mean (not just Sandra, any of y'all)? Like a parent who insists that her kid must clean up because he's gifted or autistic or has food allergies or whatever. I remember being stuck there when Ray was younger - stuck in the idea that because he was more active, more intense than any other kid I knew I had to stick to the most normal of parenting tactics - without ever seeing the inconsistency in my own thinking.

[Katherine]

Oh yes *I* know what you mean. Special children (turn off your hearing aid if you don't want to hear this) supposedly need more structure or challenge in order to rise to the occasion .... but not a child who is normal or average or whatever the word is... automatic pass for them... after all they are the standard for what passing means. (Of course, the reality is that the threat of failure is too big a deal for everybody.)

It just makes the "special" kid feel odd. It's cute when someone dubs a child the swan among the geese after being known as the ugly duckling. But even that name encompasses the small world of silly comparisons.

It's so much better to get away from all that.
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[Stephanie]

This is kind of an offshoot of what Meredith is saying, I have a friend who believes her kids have addictive personalities in regards to video games. Now mind you this is her perception, I have planted seeds I have offered suggestions, advice, my opinion etc. She flat out told me that my kids were different.

No, my kids have never been limited and do not have an *addiction* to video games. My kids love games, they play when they want because they know I will not take it away like she does with her kids. It's all reward and punishment and rules and limits, she is not willing to let go and take my advice on this.

I don't know what *normal* is but apparently we are *different*

As for the Christian part, I am a Christian but not the kind most people refer to. It is actually quite bothersome at times to have to defend myself to a non- Christian because of what some Christian they know does.

I run a yahoo group of radically unschooling Christians and I have made my beliefs known that their is no such thing as *Christian Unschooling* or secular or Jewish or pagan or whatever you want to insert.

Unschooling is unschooling period and people from all walks of life and different religions can and do unschool. So in my mind yes unschooling can clearly exist.

[Katherine]

----As for the Christian part, I am a Christian but not the kind most people refer to. It is actually quite bothersome at times to have to defend myself to a non- Christian because of what some Christian they know does.----

This almost says that not only must Christians confess, they must confess at all times, not once, not twice but continually and in all circumstances be ready to open their mouth and defend anything that makes the claim of Christianity. A thing I'm unwilling to do. I can't answer for *anything* and everything that calls itself Christian. I'm doing good to answer for myself.

I have lately been trying to get around this problem by referring to myself as a believer (as opposed to a Christian) and I'm about to stop that too but not because I've stopped believing.

From the religious standpoint, doing without the name Christian is becoming a problem that makes it appear that I'm biting the hand that has "fed" me spiritually for many long years. And also there isn't a clear distinction in most people's minds between religion and beliefs. And so, it doesn't work well to use either label, Christian or believer (to my way of thinking).

The only problem I have with not using a label is that it would appear that I've dropped out of the faith, not just dropped the lingo of the religion.

No one has to defend or explain themselves every time they turn around, although anyone can decide upon occasion that it's worth doing. The idea of modeling one's values is much better than worrying over the "name tag" we're wearing. And so very freeing. (Wow. I might even breathe freely.)

I'm not sure what if anything the value of labels could be.

Labels don't describe the process of a life of integrity. They do a poor job of speaking to the variety and complex nature that is a walk of faith itself. To that end, I figure I can still share my values, and just use plain English instead of religious jargon. The religion is often bound up in countless rules (insisting on labeling yourself Christian as a form of confession, for instance) and is a contested battlefield.

I don't have to fight battles, and if I do go to bat I can choose when. Mostly I'm not interested in keeping up the politics end of it. Just like with unschooling, I don't have to defend the philosophy to everybody who demands an answer or call myself an unschooler to live the life.
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[Sandra Dodd]

You're right, Meredith. I forgot that one. They should be in the inventory.

And "Indigo Kids" (not the offspring of the Indigo Girls)--there was a magazine for a while called "Children of the New Earth." I was asked to write for them, but they didn't use it in the magazine. It wasn't cosmic enough for them, I guess. (I purposely stayed feet-in-the-dirt.) They put it on their webpage for a while. The text of it what I wrote is here:

http://sandradodd.com/thoughts

This isn't from any of the outfits listed in this discussion, as far as I know, but here's something from the site of someone who sells unschooling information. I had forgotten all about her, but was reminded this morning.

-=-Kindle the infinite wish, the infinite dream that is within you and then watch
as your wishes manifest themselves into the magical creation of the
universe that is your life!-=-

It is possible to learn to accept that one already has a life without any infinite wish/dream/juju.

Dear anyone who ever finds this anytime in the future:

If you want a garden, start small, learn more, plant stuff, trade seeds, plant again and more extensively next year.

If you want to feel good about being a mother, find concrete and immediate ways to be a better mother, so that you can feel good TODAY, not in a few months or a year after you've paid someone to transform your wishes into the substance of tangible dream manifestation. Spit that stuff out, and turn and look at your child. Smell her hair. Make food for her and give it to her with your own hands, or on a plate she hasn't seen for a while, with her favorite fork. Tell her a story of when she was a baby. Sing while you wash the dishes.

Or you could spend some time muttering about how stupid I am to think practical action trumps astral wishin' and hopin'. I won't be able to hear it from here so it won't hurt me, but it will pollute the atmosphere in your house and in your mind and you could've spent that time and energy doing something real for your family.

[Stephanie]

---This almost says that not only must Christians confess, they must confess at all times, not once, not twice but continually and in all circumstances be ready to open their mouth and defend anything that makes the claim of Christianity. A thing I'm unwilling to do. I can't answer for *anything* and everything that calls itself Christian. I'm doing good to answer for myself.

I have lately been trying to get around this problem by referring to myself as a believer (as opposed to a Christian) and I'm about to stop that too but not because I've stopped believing.-----

I know exactly what you are saying and I agree. I am to the point where I don't want to be lumped with *Christians* because of several things some adhere to. I also was trying to find a way to express my beliefs or faith to others without a label.

[Amberlee]

I can understand and relate as well. I believe what Jesus taught was important and that we can use it in our lives. Christianity was supposed to stem from that premise--that we follow Christ. Unfortunately many mainstream Christians are not doing those things and it makes it difficult to explain in words, or just feeling we have to explain ourselves if we say we are "Christian". So, we don't try, we do. It is our actions that speak. We are not perfect...we are human. But we can do all we can to treat our "little ones" with the same respect and reverence that Christ gave the little children. We believe every person has the choice to decide how they will live. We are here to help the sick, needy, naked, hungry and care for our families. We do what we can....I wish we could do more...

We have different strengths, weaknesses, talents and different roads to walk. It shouldn't be labeled, it should just be. :) The concepts of unschooling and true Christianity are not mutually exclusive. Christ was sharing his knowledge in the temples at age 8--sounds like unschooling to me! :)

[Katherine]

Not as an argument for unschooling because we can't know really but that's been said before. That with all the traveling around his parents did when he was young and as poor as they were, he wasn't schooled and yet he was "lear-ned" to use the old fashioned adjective for "educated."

The high priests and scribes were astounded.

Sounds like me around Karl eh? :}

But I think a lot of people would attribute those qualities to his holiness or something like that .... not to normal everyday human experience in the world.
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[Katherine]

Pie in the sky used to be one of my less loved nicknames. I love fantasy and things like that ... notions of sort that got me a "bad" reputation of impracticality and being no earthly good.

I think what you had to say is well and truly published where it is. I'm glad it's there. I didn't know some of that history about homeschooling, and the history is thought provoking stuff.

Nobody is just one thing. That's one of the practical (and pie in the sky) values of unschooling. It's both.

However many people have canned ... labeled ... themselves as purely practical, even as they live within the fantasy world that others dreamed up and brought to reality, school being one of those fantasies (or huge experiments without a control... suffice it say, not a very scientific or unbiased study)! I'm not sure how practical it is to live a fantasy out in reality that isn't a dream we share. School is worldwide in scope, and getting more and more worldwide all the time too.

And just as you say, unschooling (and homeschooling) is just in time for that. People could use the practical notion that nobody is all one thing, and that everybody could be destined for a variety of ways to live life. Homogenization of personalities-- in business and school, among just a few examples --could stand as much diversification as we can muster. It's the spice of life. Variety. True interdependence not borgism.

We might only think of directions as North, South, East, and West, and anything departing from that as NE, NW, SW, SE, and so on. Within each of the 360 degrees, there's more. It's infinite, if we think how far each grows from the other the further out from the center they travel from the circle, the dot, the period that began it all. We may start from an alphabet and end up with rooms full of dictionaries of all the words we can dream up from that alphabet, and all the combinations we can make of all those words, it's infinite. Mind boggling stuff.

That's my pie in the sky big picture view.

Brian's and my upclose personal view is our experience of Karl as a happy kid and astoundingly insightful for a 5 year old. I have fought for my independence and sought to find my voice and myself for so long that I have a hard time getting to a place where I can slow down, relax and confidently live without more loudness that the situation calls for. So while I've been at war with others for a long time and am verrry slowly getting more appropriate social skills, Karl's already got some I don't have and here I am learning from him. *Blush* I'm glad for that.
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[Katherine]

Hmm.. you know. I said I had thought to stop calling myself Christian or anything like that.

I'm being a Christian or an unschooler at all times with respect to my faith or my family (respectively). I'm not always talking about myself or my status or my name even as I continue to be who I am.

Just because someone else isn't radical in the way that I am about those two things doesn't mean it's necessary to explain how *anybody* else says they're living their faith or unschooling their children.

I do think it clearly exists.... unschooling. Especially in its more radical apparitions. Just because someone doesn't believe it doesn't mean it isn't real or that it doesn't work wonderfully well. All by itself. It's powerful but not like Power Rangers. Powerful like the sun and the rain because it's based on human nature.
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