Wife wont oblige.

[Joel C]

My main problem is I want to try this out, but I work 50-60 hours a week and my wife is the one who doesn't work. I've been talking to her about this and trying to "bring her over to the dark side". She flat out refuses and I need some fodder to throw at her. She has a degree in elementary education and I usually defer to her in the *learning* department. Besides, she would be the main party implementing this since she would be the one, between the two of us, most affected.

Her reasons for not wanting to try are several: He needs social interaction with other children his age (we live 35 mins away from the closest americans we know in Germany and even if we did travel that distance to visit them, they would be in skrewel most of the time); She hates other homeschool parents (mostly because their houses are always trashed [not just messy, actually disgusting with food all over the floors/walls and wierd smells and bugs and just unsanitary and in some cases unsafe to even walk through]; their children are horrible brats [her words not mine]); and the biggest reason, it defeats the whole purpose of her going to college all those years.

I've been starting with most of the methods on Joyce's website of the deschooling behavioral stuff (I can't help the bedtime and other skrewel realted stuff till I can convince her to pull him out) and I've had only one minor outburst from ds, but that was only because mommy kept walking in front of him to clean while he was playing Spyro and getting him killed, so I politely asked her to stop cleaning until he got tired of playing. She stopped and he instanly calmed down, and was done playing about an hour later so it only became a minor inconvienience for her to stop.

I've also been trying to explain some of the concepts to her as they arise such as, he wanted to watch his favorite show on DVD and he kept wanting to FFWD it to his favorite parts (he can use the remote himself so he just starts doing it) and my wife (can i say dw like everyone else says dh.. lol) was checking her myspace. Well she kept telling him to stop FFWD'ing it and just watch it all the way through. When I stopped her and asked "Is it really a problem if he FFWD's it? Your not watching it."

Instanly I saw something click behind those beautiful blue eyes (I've kinda been pushing her on this sort of thing [letting go on things that really don't matter but we are just so darn used to saying no]). But, shes still firm on him going to skrewel for all the above reasons plus she just plain like the teacher and doesn't want to offend her by pulling him out. Plus, I think she really relishes the alone time that he is at skrewel.

Help please... what do I do? I can't even get her to sit down and really go through Joyce's site (which I thought was a really amazing reference).

[Joel C]

Should I just introduce this site to her as an alternative to Myspace and trick her into it... lol. She loves Myspace. Spends hours a day on it. Most of the time the only time she cleans house, its so she can have more time on Myspace throughout the week... lol.

[M Lewis]

Hi Joel. I'm really enjoying reading all of your posts. I see your willingness to examine your parenting and that speaks of your great love for your son. First of all, remember that your wife also has great love for your son too. It's difficult when one can see a much better way and the partner isn't there yet. I understand the sense of urgency as a child isn't young forever! But remember that your wife IS your partner and not your adversary.
I know you're reading here and it's helping you, but for my husband things go much better when I don't try and bring "others" into it. He wants to know what *I* think and what *I* feel. It sounds like when you talk about reading stuff, you meet resistance. When you talked as Dad in the moment about the FFWDing, she listened.
So I suggest you keep reading and keep working on YOUR interactions with your son. And talk to your wife as a co-parent. It would probably be a good idea to actually set some time for this. So it's not a reaction to something that's happening, but is more of a "planning meeting".LOL She's done a lot of schooling, don't devalue that. It is part of how she defines herself, and as far as she's concerned your just NOW starting to look into the child development stuff! And your saying that what she's learned is wrong....
A good place to start is realizing you both have desires where your son is concerned. Talk about what they are! What skills do you think are important? What does she think is important? You don't have to use the word "unschooling" to talk about the philosophy behind it and why you believe that it will accomplish those goals in a more respectful and true manner. Talk about the kind of relationships you have with your own parents, what you would like to be different or the same with your son.
Open up your heart to her so she can open up hers to you and work this out together. THAT will be so much better for your son than him getting a sense that you are at philosophical odds with each other.
Mary

[Joel C]

Thanks Mary. Its been a tough road for me. Had a bad experience with my ex-wife that led me to change from a very tolerant person to one with some anger management issues and I've always had problems expressing myself to my children. Spanking was the only way i could get them to "do what I wanted them to do".

Now everything seems, in these short 2 days, to be clicking into place. I realize I don't need him to "do what I want him to do". It kinda feels backwards since for the last 10 years, being in the military I'm used to the structure, the "I tell a subordinate to jump, they ask how high."

There's always been a tough period when I get home where I try to switch that mentality off and I usually couldn't. That led to me withdrawing because the last thing I wanted to do was to hurt my wife or child, so i would closet myself up and both of them knew not to come near me for a few hours after I came home (but it was out of fear, not respect [I've never raised my hand to my wife or child in an abusive way, but my wife had a very abusive marriage before me so she still gets scared in some situations]).

I've always been looking for "a better way" and even for ya'll that don't like to qalify bad, worse, good, better, best; this is the only way I can express it. It made me feel horrible that I couldn't be around my wife and son for fear of hurting them emotionally, and now that I've found it, OMG. It's like finding that perfect flavor of ice cream, and then you want to run everywhere with a big bowl of it and tell every body to try it. Then you run into a lactose intolerant and they refuse it and your just stunned... "How can you refuse the best taste int he world?" But you still have to take their feelings and well being (which i think go hand in hand) into consideration.

I guess I just need to wait till that lactose intolerant person goes and gets some meds before she can eat my ice cream...

[Katherine]

Consider looking up Ben and Kelly Lovejoy in Columbia SC. Ben is a military man and fantastic unschooler who I'm sure has struggled with some of the issues you talk about here. Kelly has run the radical unschooling Live & Learn Conference for the last several years. They are wonderful people you might like to even try to meet up with in the not too distant future. They have some stuff online to peruse too.

Karl's dad isn't in the military but like many men in grueling jobs one might think he could be. That was very eyeopening to me... what you said about closeting himself to keep from hurting people with anger. I've noticed that behavior around here.

Personally I would like to hear more about your experiences. It's very helpful when someone talks about their perspective and others like me can glean a clearer picture of what it's like to be like that other person I'm not. :)
_____

[Zoa Conner]

Maybe the idea of homeschooling - let alone unschooling or radical unschooling - in another country with no support base and few social interactions is very scary to her. She is clearly craving social connections as well which is prob why she spends so much time on myspace. Who is there to be with in real life for her and your son? How long have you been there and how long will you stay in Germany? As a PhD physicist I can totally identify with the "but I went to school for this and so this is who I am" mentality. On the other hand, it is not really who I am anymore. I have grown. You wife can too. But she probably does not realize yet that it is ok to grow. What are her passions or interests? Is she able to do them now? If not, why not. How can you facilitate that so she can feel like someone besides a teacher, alone, stuck in another country? Her resistance to your new crazy ideas may be the only way she can hold onto her identity.

If I am totally offbase, I assume you will tell me.

[Julie B]

The first thing that occurs to me is something unschooly that we'd apply to our children. We wouldn't try to change them. We'd flow with who they are. This is obviously tricky with a spouse when you want everything to be perfect for your kid right now.

Maybe just take a minute to simmer in the idea that your child knows he is loved and that he's okay, that unschooling is coming into his life through you and that it can blossom in unexpected ways. I love Joyce's site, and your wife's way may not be throught Joyce's site right now. It may be through day-to-day observations of you and your interaction with your child.

When our kids don't want to learn a certain way, we step back and observe how they *do* learn in their own best way. What you can do on your end is marinate yourself in all the wonderful unschooling ideas you love and let them ooze out your pores. If you feel motivated to speak or act, check your "pushy monitor" first. Are you coming from a place of you-must-change-now? Then you're likely to encounter resistance and a reaction to your lack of trust, just as we do with our kids. Does it feel natural and unforced? Then it's probably a good thing.

We can apply all the stuff we know about interacting with our kids to interacting with our spouses. The foundation of it all is cultivating confidence in each other and confidence that it will all work out, a willingness to wait (or at least pause) in order to see how things emerge in their own time.

[Cliff and Heather]

One thing that I think makes unschooling so credible are all the ex-teachers. Strew some of their writing around?

The book by award winning teacher, John Taylor Gatto would be a good and cheap buy to strew around the house:
http://www.amazon.com/Dumbing-Down-Curriculum-Compulsory-Schooling/...

John Holt books are also very convincing and cheap. Check them out.

Make a blog (myspace blog?) and quote some of your favorite writings from reliable sources. I blog on blogger and myspace. It is easy. I have lots of unschooling friends on there. Your wife will be curious to read your posts. My husband reads my blog and it has helped to write in a nonthreatening way. Over the years he has become my biggest fan. He is also a military man!

Good luck to you!!!

~Heather

[Jean Dorsey]

My husband, Drew, is a teacher and an unschooling dad. He just wrote this. Maybe it would be helpful?

[Julie B]

I'm also an ex-teacher, and our income currently comes from Joe's "teaching." No better way to learn close-up why you'd want to turn to unschooling!

[eintob]

I personally would suggest you avoid JT Gatto for now...I know many teachers that find his approach waaay too confrontational and it puts them straight onto the defensive.

Have you thought about just continuing to focus on developing an unschooling lifestyle before trying to take on unschooling itself? Like would she be willing to read any of Alfie Kohn's books? "Punished by Rewards" and "Unconditional Parenting" could help her see a different perspective on things that wouldn't be pushing her into homeschooling but completely supports a move in that direction.

I know that my ex would only push back on any issue that I was trying to "enlighten" him on. Lead by example and strew strew strew. :)

[Deborah Sweatman]

Speaking as the "at home mom" of my family, I can see both sides of the issue. My hubby works grueling 12 hr shifts switching between day & nights each week so that I can stay at home. I originally looked forward to when our 4th & youngest child started school so I could have some "alone time" to myself on school days (as well as having alone time with hubby on his days off). Choosing to pull my 3 kids (the ones still at home) from school to unschool them was a big change from that. Unlike your wife, I do not have any kind of formal training in any kind of schooling other than my own experiences in school. I also was concerned about socialization due to the fact that I have seen the effects on a couple of kids I personally got to know who are/were home schooled and do/did not get much social contact with other kids. They do/did not always react well in social situations with kids their own age. I looked into homeschooling from different angles before my friend, Valerie, tipped me off about unschooling. I am currently "battling" my hubby to relax into unschooling for our kids. He's now the one worried about socialization & whether the kids will know "what they need to know" to survive in the world today. Now my kids are all out of public school (the last one out of school has been out only 3 weeks) and, yes, alone time has become a thing of the past...for the time being. The kids are at home 24/7 while my hubby goes out to work to keep us sheltered, fed & healthy and gets to come home to a mess & kids who've done nothing, as far as he can tell, but play & watch TV. I can also see that she is possibly reading your intentions as a devaluation of her "department" in the learning field. Sounds like working at the "small stuff" is the best way for you & her. It also may have to wait for you to move out of Germany (assuming you are not there for a loooong time) so that your wife & son can have access to a wider range of opportunities of spending time with other home or unschoolers. Also, remember, the harder you PUSH, the harder she feels she has to PUSH back, even if what you are trying to get her to do "the right thing" for your son. As long as she's resistant to the change, you cannot "make her" understand or embrace what you've learned about unschooling. I am having to balance giving my kids the benefit of unschooling while placating their dad that we are doing the "right thing". He's not sold completely on unschooling but agrees that public school is not the way to go. I have the advantage of being the one who stays with the kids while he works, whereas, your wife, who is not completely sold on the concept, is the one who is at home, and would be at home, all the time. Keep up what you are doing that works in giving her glimpses into what "it's all about" while not pushing so hard & maybe the light bulb will flash on 100%. I keep hoping & striving to allow my kids the edge they need to prove to their dad that unschooling is working for them & that they will end up being the person they were always meant to be.

[Scottica C]

<-----Joel's wife here. Ok, I must say that Yes i see a difference in my husband and I can see some things differently with our son. Yes i have read their are other homeschoolers here, but i dont think there is other unschoolers here. Yes i beleive that our son needs the interaction with school, yes we live pretty far out with no english speaking neighbors, Its extremly hard. My son has a speech and cognitive delay and 4 days a week. He works with teachers who are helping him. To be thruthful I am not exatctly sure how to help him in those areas. I am afraid to pull him out of those programs designed to truly help him.

I can honestly say I like the new way my husband is beng, how he wants to be more involved and supportive. I want to be that way.. I guess fear is a huge hamper... oh wow i said it. To go from being told one thing, learning one way, to basically unlearning everything I have learned.