Wife wont oblige.

[Joel C]

My main problem is I want to try this out, but I work 50-60 hours a week and my wife is the one who doesn't work. I've been talking to her about this and trying to "bring her over to the dark side". She flat out refuses and I need some fodder to throw at her. She has a degree in elementary education and I usually defer to her in the *learning* department. Besides, she would be the main party implementing this since she would be the one, between the two of us, most affected.

Her reasons for not wanting to try are several: He needs social interaction with other children his age (we live 35 mins away from the closest americans we know in Germany and even if we did travel that distance to visit them, they would be in skrewel most of the time); She hates other homeschool parents (mostly because their houses are always trashed [not just messy, actually disgusting with food all over the floors/walls and wierd smells and bugs and just unsanitary and in some cases unsafe to even walk through]; their children are horrible brats [her words not mine]); and the biggest reason, it defeats the whole purpose of her going to college all those years.

I've been starting with most of the methods on Joyce's website of the deschooling behavioral stuff (I can't help the bedtime and other skrewel realted stuff till I can convince her to pull him out) and I've had only one minor outburst from ds, but that was only because mommy kept walking in front of him to clean while he was playing Spyro and getting him killed, so I politely asked her to stop cleaning until he got tired of playing. She stopped and he instanly calmed down, and was done playing about an hour later so it only became a minor inconvienience for her to stop.

I've also been trying to explain some of the concepts to her as they arise such as, he wanted to watch his favorite show on DVD and he kept wanting to FFWD it to his favorite parts (he can use the remote himself so he just starts doing it) and my wife (can i say dw like everyone else says dh.. lol) was checking her myspace. Well she kept telling him to stop FFWD'ing it and just watch it all the way through. When I stopped her and asked "Is it really a problem if he FFWD's it? Your not watching it."

Instanly I saw something click behind those beautiful blue eyes (I've kinda been pushing her on this sort of thing [letting go on things that really don't matter but we are just so darn used to saying no]). But, shes still firm on him going to skrewel for all the above reasons plus she just plain like the teacher and doesn't want to offend her by pulling him out. Plus, I think she really relishes the alone time that he is at skrewel.

Help please... what do I do? I can't even get her to sit down and really go through Joyce's site (which I thought was a really amazing reference).

[Joyce Fetteroll]

** To go from being told one thing, learning one way, to basically unlearning everything I have learned. **

Oh, yes. Definitely, yes.

It's even harder when it's not something you've started, but something a spouse stumbled on and embraced with enthusiasm.

** I guess fear is a huge hamper... oh wow i said it. **

What do you fear? That's a good place to begin. (You don't need to answer here unless it will help you spell them all out.)

Quite often our fears are vague or we're just repeating what we've heard might happen. And rather than taking those fears out to examine, we do what everyone else is doing. It's sort of like a magic dance to keep evil away without us realizing it. It's comforting.

I bet you'd find a lot of your fears addressed at: Joyfully Rejoycing. Maybe even some you didn't realize you had ;-)

** He needs social interaction with other children his age **

I would examine this "common wisdom". Not to begin an argument here, but to question how people know that. Well, really, they don't! It just seems like it should be true. And with preschool and kindergarten so common, it's cementing the idea that kids must have kids. But is it true?

Some kids are more social than others but it isn't true, from unschoolers experiences, that kids must have kids to interact with. In fact I'd bet most unschooler who spent a lot of time getting their kids together with other kids when the kids were resistant wished they had done a lot less of that.

So it depends on your child's needs, not on the needs of 5 (??) year olds.

Probably the best thing to have is a variety of people because, when you think about it, being divided up by age is completely unnatural in society. The only time it happens is in school. In real life, we divide ourselves up by interests. (My 17 yo daughter has friends spanning from 12 to 83. One loves to play pretend games. The other is a runner. Which are both interests of hers. ) Going to the market, playgrounds, museums. Yes, being in the military in a foreign country does make that more challenging! It's just something to think about and an idea to see the world differently through so you don't feel like you're trapped by something you "must" do.

[M Lewis]

This is so cool!! Hello Scottica (Is that what to call you?) I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to not have any english speaking neighbors. Especially since I'm a rather social creature. I'm sorry it's so hard for you. I was thinking it might drive me crazy and then I realized that I go for days with my only interaction being with my husband, my children and my community online!LOL I don't even know my neighbors in this apartment development I'm in except for one across the way, and we hardly ever see each other. And then I realized that my 2 yo only really plays with other little kids once a week at church. Other than that, he plays with one of us, lots of that with his 12 yo sister. I haven't seen any lack of development because of this..in fact I've noticed at church that he's one of the first of the children to share, he's calm, he engages in imaginative play with the other kids, in fact he initiates it.
But my children take after their father and don't seem to need a lot of social interaction, whereas I need more, and I know other parents whose children need LOTS. I think that if your child would be happy at home doing things with you, then there's no harm in not having the interaction of school. And if there is a playground nearby where he could PLAY with other children when they are there, that is the place where actual interaction happens! I've watched my son and daughter play across the language barrier with Spanish speaking children in our complex and it's been a great experience.
I think I'll talk about speech in another post! (I've heard there might be a length limit here...)
Mary
(oh. I want to add that just because my older children did not have much "social life" when younger did not mean they became socially backwards. Many folks on this site have met them in real life, and can attest that my children are charming, interesting and fun to talk to!)

[M Lewis]

Hi again! I know that lots of stuff has been written about speech and cognitive delays on unschooling boards and sites, and you can search those out (or some fabulous link fairy will appear here - it's known to happen!) but I thought I'd tell my experience.
My son Connor was VERY difficult to understand when he was little. He spoke what I refer to as "vowelese"; he didn't use any consonants at all. His big sister understood him best, then me, then his dad, and pretty much everyone else was clueless. My Mother in Law was really pushing for me to put him in speech therapy. Something inside me resisted that idea. I'm not even really sure where it came from. I just knew that he was ok, and that he wasn't going to speak without consonents for the rest of his life. That was kind of my take on most things that others had a time-table for. I'd say "I'm sure he'll be using a toilet by the time he's 18" "I'm sure he'll know how to tie his shoes by the time he's 18" "I'm sure he'll be able to read by the time he's 18" AND "I'm sure he'll be more understandable by the time he's 18."
What I WAS concerned about was him having things thrust at him before he was ready, things he would do on his own anyway when he WAS ready. He used to be very black and white about things and if pushed in any way would push back. I knew that trying to push his development would put him in reactive mode and actually slow it down. I think I was also leery of "programs" in general. Once they start making files on the little kiddos it never seems to end! I've seen it over and over with friends children!!! Many who have finally gotten so fed up and then tried to extract themselves and found it much harder because of all the "experts" who have gotten involved.
I got my child out of school right as they were starting a file on him ("this thick!" I was told)when he was 6. I'm so thankful I did. He was turning into an angry little boy from all the pushing.
Anyway. He speaks just fine now. He still has the black and white tendencies..that's who he is...but he understands himself. And he's not the angry person he was headed towards being. My husband had to work through his own black and whiteness, and his anger at a MUCH later age and it's pretty hard to do....whereas my son just naturally matured out of it. Unschooling made it possible.
Mary

[Scottica C]

Yes you can call me scottica.. i promise it is my real name. lol.. I have yet o fn a park in our little villge and have only met 1 german child. I have seen our son go out there and play with the little girl when she visits out land lord. he loves sitting out there. He is shy with adults and very outgoing with other children.. He gets upse when they dont play with him. I to am rather social.. i go crazy when i have complete silence.. i am always chatting, emailing, or talking to someone.. I HATE silence ...

I have driven in the village a few times and rarely see children. lol... On the occasion i do see them, i get the dirty stares or the curious ones.

[Scottica C]

Before my so started with a speech assistance, i like to call it, He was a very angry and violent 2 yr old, hiting,kicking, and punching me. Mainly becaus i couldnt understand him. Once we were getting some assistance everything fell into place. He has come a long way. Granted there are times where i felt I should havebeen able to do that. But for some reason i couldnt.
Joel and I have started topics abot homeschooling or unschooling Avery this coming yr. Right now its feeling the ground and testing the waters around us and making sure that everything is the best choice for our family.
I know I want to go back to collage and finish my degree.

[Katherine]

Some of those stares you're seeing can easily be misinterpreted social and cultural differences. My admittedly small experience of German culture leads me to believe that many Germans are serious-minded and reserved about many things that don't strike me as *that* worthy of seriousness or reservation. Germans have a whole different history and culture and collective memory than other cultures, even neighboring ones. Maybe learn more about that if you think it might help you to understand the people in your community, instead of trying to break into the social scene cold turkey.

I had a German neighbor when I was just a tot about 4 maybe 5 years old. She and I got along so well. Her mother would bring us peanut butter and jelly sandwiches periodically which I so looked forward to. She also washed the exterior of her mobile home.. not something most Americans do weekly or ever! She was pleasant and warm but I rarely saw her or her daughter smile. My little German friend (Delphia) spoke no English and I don't know German. We made mud pies to pretend-eat and hills and roads to ride toy cars around on. We played everyday together. Those are very fond memories for me. I hope she remembers me well too. :)
____

[Katherine]

You can go back to college and finish your degree and still homeschool if you want to. I did it part-time and it was hard but we all somehow managed to get through it. Sometimes I was able to arrange it so that Karl could go with me occasionally. In fact he asked to go to class with me again not too long ago and I'm finished working for my degree.

Karl is very black and white in his thinking too, especially when it comes to his own competence. He wants to be in charge and do it himself! A great quality for future learning. Karl got loudest and screamiest during the time when he was trying to succeed in language competence. He hit and freaked out on a regular basis. Mainly because I couldn't understand him. I could have written much of your post. I often felt helpless and breathed deeply---- I don't know how many times a day. It was tough going for a while there. Sometimes I yelled at the poor kid. It was right around the same age you're talking about. Then he grew and time passed and he understood more, and his language ability improved on its own naturally. It seemed to take forever.

Wouldn't you rather give your child credit for his language competence instead of giving it to others? At the time, you might not have known that as a possibility. Unschooling is a different way to think about what happens during a child's education. The perspective and the focus is on what the child is doing, and what the child wants to do.

Your child *wanted* to increase in language competence, otherwise no amount of assistance would have been useful.

[Katherine]

If their family isn't German though, and they are foreigners in that land, I don't know that the law would be the same for them, although I'm sure Germans would likely feel most comfortable if it is. Check with the embassy too as well as native countries for the 2 of you.

Actually I would ask online support lists first. Anybody homeschooling in foreign lands with experience of Germany could have very valuable info on how to proceed.
_____

[Joyce Fetteroll]

The regulations for the military depend on where the family is stationed. In the states, it defaults to the state regulations. Overseas it depends.

There's a good summary at NHEN Military FAQ that can point someone in the right direction.

There are a lot of lists at Military Homeschooling - A to Z Home's Cool Homeschooling, with a good sense of which have a Christian bent and which don't.

[Deborah Cunefare]

**I am not sure I would cross the legal line in a foreign country. Or set that example for my kids. It is a difficult choice to make.**

U.S. military families stationed in foreign countries aren't subject to that country's laws with regard to the education of their children.

[Deborah Sweatman]

Scottica, hang in there. When I attended this year's Rethinking Education Seminar in Dallas, TX, I met a woman who flew all the way from Germany to attend so she could connect with other unschoolers. I remember her telling me how it was illegal to homeschool, let alone unschool, kids in Germany but that she & her husband were exempt due to his work with the military (the reason they are there in the first place). She, too, is isolated from any other Americans and feels alone as well. I wish I had gotten her email address before I left the seminar, I would gladly have given it to you so you could contact her. I do not remember what area of Germany they are in. As far as your son's speech & cognitive delays, several reasons could be the cause of such. It appears to me that the help he's received so far has started to give him the tools needed for him to be able to better communicate to you his desires & needs. Now that he's aware of his ability to do so, and your willingness to listen, I feel that, should you decide to withdraw him from school & begin home, or unschooling him, you would not need to worry overmuch about this. As M. Lewis mentioned about her sons' special language, your son may have been doing just that, and when he was 2, he would hit & kick because, as far as he was concerned you just weren't listening to him. Now he's older & has some of the basic tools needed to communicate with you. I'm sure by now that you have learned to pick up on when he's beginning to get frustrated over his inability to get accross to you (or anyone else) what he's trying to say. Maybe you two could come up with a special codeword or catchphrase, such as "mutant, ninja, space monkeys" that he could say when he's beginning to stress out over his apparent inability to get accross what he wants to say. That could be his way signalling you that he needs you to sit & listen to him and allow him the time to think out what he wants to tell you, but feels that he doesn't have your full attention to do so. You could also say the word or phrase to him when you pick up on his nearing that point to let him know you are aware he's trying and that you are listening. You don't even have to pull him out of school to start a little trial like this.