Where does tolerance fit in to RU?

[Debbie Penley]

As I'm starting to grasp more and more what the RU lifestyle entails (the details - the overall gist I had, but it's the every day practical JUST DO IT! stuff that I'm workin' on!), I'm wondering, as I have with other AP practices, where does tolerance fit in with Radical Unschooling?

When making my parenting choices, I have read, questioned, looked inside myself (this one the most often), and reflected on my faith. In the end, after looking at the end result in children from other families practicing the style I wanted to try, and knowing that it was the only decision that would bring me peace, I went ahead and naturally parented my children, from birth on.

But I struggle with not judging other people. I have tried to grasp in the last year the fact that what is best for ME and MY FAMILY is not always what is best for OTHER PEOPLE and THEIR FAMILIES. And yet, I don't always believe that statement...because I think that some of the things I do ARE best for everyone (unless there are concrete reason why they can't be done - ie. nursing an adopted baby, though possible, can't always be done...staying home with your children as a single mom, etc.)

I'm wondering if there's a better way to picture this in my head? Although it seems unschooling has certain attributes that everyone agrees on, it's more that it LACKS attributes that traditional parenting claims (bed times, meal times, punishments). Unschooling is a way of living, more so than a set of "do's" and "don'ts" (which would be easier for me to follow - I was great at school!)

Do RUers view their way of life as the ultimate natural way of living, that all people, if they allowed themselves, COULD do and be happier for it, or do they think of it as "this is best for me, but it's not for everyone..."

And I know this may differ for each RUer. I struggle with thinking the former, but know that I should be thinking the latter.

And yet, sometimes there ARE certain truths that pertain to everyone, correct? (I'm actually asking this, it's not rhetorical!) One example might be: "Children are more emotionally stable in homes where both the father and mother reside in mutual harmony, than if there are two homes with the father at one and the mother the other and discord inbetween."

How do we differentiate between truths that are for a few, and truths that are for all. if that makes sense?

In other words, I'd like to say that Breastfeeding is best for all babies. And I'd be right in a certain sense, I think (again...uncertain here! Too many variables) but there will always be mothers who for one reason or another chose not to breastfeed or tried and couldn't, and will feel defensive and hurt from that statement. Can that statement ever be true? Or only partially true? Or does that not even make sense?

How tolerant IS unschooling of all the other ways of raising a family?

Deb

[Sally Lopez]

--I wonder, did most of you have your extensive vocabulary before you began RUing? Or have you aquired it by wanting to be more exact in your own dialogs? I feel behind linguistically!--

I don't know whether they acquired their silvered tongues before or after they started unschooling, but I know ~Katherine's deep musings always make me feel like the world really is more expansive than I've been seeing it, and Sandra usually makes me laugh and smack my forehead and go, "Well, duh," and Joyce's words make me want to hug my kids and breathe, and whatever Pam Sorooshian says makes me think, "I can do this!" Maybe it's not that you're behind so much as that the people who are so generous as to respond are just so full of gems.

Have I said lately how grateful I am? I'm grateful! Hip, hip, hooray for the mindful parents who have helped me!

:-D

Sally

[Joni Zander]

"I wonder, did most of you have your extensive vocabulary before you began RUing? Or have you aquired it by wanting to be more exact in your own dialogs? I feel behind linguistically!"

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm learning all the time, which also means that I'm expanding my vocabulary every day.

I've noticed that unschooling email lists are the most well written lists I've ever participated in. In fact, I can usually tell if a homeschooler on a general homeschool list is an unschooler or not by how well written their posts are. (Not saying that in a snobbish way - just an observation.) I don't know if it is because most unschooling support has been online and there is a need to write clearly when talking about this stuff online, or if unschooling appeals more to people who are a little more intellectual. (How's that for cocky? LOL!)

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-A drug addict can't breastfeed.-=-

"Can't"? Shouldn't? Doctor says no? It won't work? Does it matter what drugs?

The separation of acceptance and tolerance makes a lot of sense, and the exaple of the wife-beating neighbor is good. This, though, isn't always true: "It is like forgiveness, it is for you not the other person."

Sometimes another person is benefited by an expression of honest forgiveness--by knowing that he is welcome back into the life of someone he harmed. Often it does help the "forgiver," if she was carrying a load of resentment. There are cases, though, where the burden of memory and regret is on the person who needs to be forgiven, and the harmed party had pretty much forgotten about it a long time before.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-If I see someone behaving in a way I can't tolerate to others, I can act without knowing why they're doing it.-=-

The person being hit isn't always an innocent party. Sometimes you might want to know why. You might detain the defender of the victim and let the original attacker go!

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-Maybe it only has that idea of power for me. I just feel that if I say I tolerate something, then it implies the opposite-- that I have a choice, or a right, to NOT tolerate it. I don't feel that I have that right. I can not like a behavior, but that doesn't give me power to do anything to that person.-=-

I doubt you would tolerate any kind of behavior in your own home.

It's good to try statements (and principles and ideas) out in various scenarios. I most certainly have the right not to tolerate certain kinds of things in my own house, my own yard, my own car.

-=-saying I tolerate someone sounds very condescending. And also not very honest -=-

I tolerate my mother-in-law's snarkiness in my house, because she hardly ever comes over and the contrast is kinda nice for me! My kids and my husband are all glad when she leaves and stops sniping at them.

I tolerate some of my kids' friends' stupidity because the kids don't mind. So I leave the room. Sometimes I don't tolerate it perfectly well, and I wish I had left the room sooner. :-)

One thing I don't tolerate well is when people come to an unschooling discussion (not this one, but one I've organized) and say "I respect everyone's ideas equally." They might as well write "I don't respect anything because I have not a clue what 'respect' means, but I do write even when I don't know what I'm writing about." "Non-judgmental" pretty much seems to mean "not being analytical" in most quick-use phrases lately.

[Sandra Dodd]

I don't know what it is either, for certain, but a few of times early on when the AOL homeschooling message boards first spawned an unschooling board separate from the rest, so we could FINALLY discuss unschooling without constant noise from curriculum fanatics and various critics, here's what happened:

When the school-at-homers (doh!) had a really hard question they couldn't answer, or needed ideas, one of them would come to the unschooling message board and say "We figured you guys would know..." and then ask the question.

And someone on our end always knew. Even though they had probably ten times as many participants, they weren't dealing much in creativity or depth or research or trivia. They were reading the chapters and answering the questions (if they had the teacher's manual). (So how's that for cocky? I didn't make the news, I'm just reporting it. And it's really old news now, too, come to think of it. I didn't make that historical trivia...)

[Katherine]

In the case of children getting hit by adults I would be hard pressed to agree. I don't think you're talking about that though.

With adults, it's rare that I feel confident that the apparent info is the real deal. So then, I'd agree with you that hittee's aren't necessarily innocent. I am thinking that this 2nd scenario is what you're talking about.
____

[Katherine]

"-=-saying I tolerate someone sounds very condescending. And also not very honest -=-"

Maybe not having much experience might lead one to feel this way. I used to say something similar until I met some people who thought *my* car was a great mode of transport for illegal traffic. I disagreed and left with my car. Real life example.

Would it be wise not to judge some behavior as intolerable? I can accept the fact that some people do x, but must one always tolerate it? I think it can be irresponsible to.
____

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-Would it be wise not to judge some behavior as intolerable? I can accept the fact that some people do x, but must one always tolerate it? I think it can be irresponsible to.-=-

And there are laws against tolerating certain things. "Accessory to a crime" and "Accessory to murder" come to mind.

[Sandra Dodd]

One analogy that might help is owning a yacht. Just because some people own yachts, should everybody?

Unschooling can be fantastically big and cool. It takes a lot of work, and often the sacrifice of income, and people lose out on some of the (questionable but touted) benefits of mainstream life, but it's a choice they make because they want something really special.

Not everyone wants it, or can have it. Not everyone can or would even want to do the maintenance it takes.

[Michele James-Parham]

I don't know how many people on here are familiar with 'The Work', but I wanted to say that I have just made an amazing personal breakthrough and I had to share it.

The reason I am sharing it on this thread is because my inspiration to do this 'work', came from one of the videos off Byron Katie's website. The video deals with bigotry and how others shouldn't be bigots.

Here is the video: http://www.thework.com/video_prejudice.asp

My work was about my own bigotry [intolerance] towards parents who are not on the same path as I and so many other CLers & RUers.

Here is my post about it: http://www.naturalattachment.com/wordpress/2008/10/20/i-just-did-my...

michele
www.naturalattachment.net