housework

[aidan sutherland]

I'm slowly integrating unschooling into every area of our lives, and the housework issue is really proving difficult for me. I think I need an attitude adjustment- please help me explore the nether regions of my brain.

Firt off, the situation at my house. I'm a single mom and I have four kids ages 9, 7, 5, and 4. I'm not talking about a one baby and one toddler level of housework. This is a LOT more work than that. Four free big kids exploring and playing can very quickly trash an entire house and create several hours of work. And of course there is no other adult to pitch in.

My mom's attitude towards housework was that we would do our chores and help when we saw her working or else. So I get bent out of shape, deep down, when I'm working and other people are standing around or having fun. Does anyone have similar feelings and any ways to counteract that thinking? How can I help myself be more ok with the fact that my kids will cheerfully trash a room with toys and food all over the floor and then run off to do something else, or even demand I do something for them while I'm trying to clean up after them?

Seriously, I resemble the maid of four pampered royal children. That's just what it looks like to me. Please help me find another way to understand this situation.

I have a lot of anger around this, and I know that in itself hinders the process of nurturing a helpful attitude in my kids. I'm afraid I often don't ask for help because I can't help expecting it- as in 'you should buckle down and do it cheerfully!' and then blowing my top when they don't do anything.

I used to try to 'make' them do chores, but that amounted to me trying to follow four divergent bodies around, yelling. I was outnumbered, and it just didn't work. Not to mention that the yelling just had to get louder.

Sorry this rambled on so much. If you're still reading, do you have any advice for me?

[Joyce Fetteroll]

** I guess I just don't see it the way some folks here do.**

True. But I think more accurate is that some folks here see things exactly as you do plus further. We've been where you are and realized the negatives were outweighing the positives. There are negatives and positives to everything, of course. But when the relationship is being placed first, conventional parenting practices are seen to be hugely damaging to that. And they're good in achieving something in the short term (getting the house clean) but really poor in the long term. What percentage of conventional parents aren't having problems with their teens?

** I can't function while walking on dirt and cracker crumbs.**

And it will help you to grasp what people are saying by *not* assuming that we want something different from life than you do. We don't want cracker crumbs grinding into the carpet. We don't want to have 16 yos who leave a surly stream of chaos behind them for us to clean up.

** If I didn't put them there, why is it my responsibility to clean them up?**

And if you have an indoor cat, I assume you don't poop in the litter box either, but it's your responsibility to clean it out since it's part of having an indoor cat.

When my daughter was 4 or so, I spilled something and she said "You need to clean that up. You spilled it." While true, it felt yucky. I would have much rather heard from someone else "Oh, let's get that cleaned up!" And I realized that if I wanted to hear that, I needed to say it to her.

In my mind, in most conventional parents' minds, I was (I thought!) teaching her responsibility by insisting she take action for the consequences of her behavior. But I wasn't. I was modeling that time was a precious commodity to be doled out. I was modeling that we don't help one another. I was modeling I get to judge her troubles and whether their worth my time or not. If I don't want someone treating me that way, it's not a good idea to treat them that way.

** I'm not the maid.**

And they haven't hired you as their maid either!

One big stumbling block to understanding is assuming that since the kids don't clean up that they're leaving it for us. The truth is that 1) they don't yet care and 2) the work involved is *way* more than they feel is worth it for what gets achieved (eg, they may actually appreciate a clean room, but the end result isn't worth the effort.)

Conventional parents would react with "Tough. That's how life is. They need to learn." But the flaw in that thinking is in believing that kids don't care because they haven't been taught to care. The truth is that they simply aren't old enough. They will care (as they're able, as their personalities dictate) when they're older. They are way more likely to care and more likely to care sooner if they don't associate chores with negative feelings. (Negative feelings from parents, in themselves, in the atmosphere of the house.)

The beauty of taking full responsibility -- full *responsibility* not necessarily the full burden of doing it -- is that we become someone the kids want to help, we model how to tackle chores, and the kids do help and are way more likely to take pride in doing a job to their satisfaction rather than doing as little as they can get away with.

(The return doesn't necessarily happen on our timetable though! I think 11ish, so preteen, my daughter started showing glimmers of wanting to help without being asked. Before that even if I asked if she wanted to fold towels or sort socks -- she treated it like running a marathon! And it was at that age. No matter that I could see how simple it was, it wasn't for her. And I saw the change in her about 11. Her brain had matured and those tasks became simple to her.)

[Joyce Fetteroll]

(There's a limit to post size and I found it! ;-)

We can *ask* for help. And it needs to be a real question, not a fake question. They can say no and we need to accept that what they're doing is more important to them. (Even if it doesn't look like it to us! Because we would appreciate the same courtesy from them when we're involved in something -- even if they dont see the value in what we're doing.) And we need to know the task is truly all ours so when we're asking it feels like "I know this is entirely mine to deal with, but I could use some help." It needs to not feel like we're tossing our burdens onto someone else just because we gave birth to them. When kids know they can say no, when kids have been the recipient of our generosity with time, when kids are old enough to appreciate what goes into things they appreciate, they are way more likely to say "Of course I'll help!"

And that's not an assumption based on some airy fairy feel good parenting philosophy :-) It's what actually happens!

** I certainly don't have my kids do duties every time they ask for something .**

You don't need to do make your kids do tasks every time they ask for something in order for them to get the idea that if they ask you might have them do something they don't want to. Eventually they'll be old enough to see the messes you're likely to have them clean up and might say "Not worth asking."

** I also don't interpret my "duties" into "manipulating" or "tricking" my kids.**

Not sure what that means. But just because our intention isn't to manipulate or trick, doesn't mean someone else doesn't feel manipulated or tricked. People react to how they feel, not to our intentions.

** This is not only my home. It's the home of three developing children. Why should it be only my job to clean up?**

Funny how parents say "It's your home too and your responsibility," when it comes to chores, but "It's my home," when it comes to setting standards or how money is spent or how to decorate it or ... Apparently what we want -- without realizing it -- is control without all the work.

Kids are reacting to a clearer view of the world than we see. They *know* the house isn't theirs. They know that's bullpucky. They know they can't paint the living room walls black if they want. They know the can't turn the yard into a meadow if they want. They know they can't have peanut butter for dinner every night.

But the owners of the house *could*. The owners know that. And they (usually) choose not to because they don't wanna. (Though there is an unschooling family near us who has allowed their suburban yard to become a meadow!)

** In my life, I've rarely received something for nothing.**

But when you do, when someone is generous with you and you know they don't expect anything back, doesn't it feel great? :-)

And if it *doesn't* feel great, then that's something worth examining!

** I think I would be doing my kids a disservice if I gave them everything they want without their help in keeping our family home reasonably organized and clean.**

Most conventional parents would say the same. But the *assumption* is that if we don't make kids help, that they never will. The *assumption* is that kids won't appreciate what we do for them and will feel entitled to our time and money. They don't know! They're making assumptions based on little children. They're making assumptions based on parents who "do" for their kids but lack the relationship (the parents may be afraid to ask for help.)

Neither assumption is correct. And we're not just assuming the assumptions are incorrect! Many of us have teens. And we see that when we are generous with our time and love, we not only model it as a great way to be (because it feels good to receive it) but we become people our kids want to be generous with.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-And that's not an assumption based on some airy fairy feel good parenting philosophy :-) It's what actually happens!-=-

My kids are VERY helpful when I need help.

-=-Funny how parents say 'It's your home too and your responsibility,' when it comes to chores, but 'It's my home,' when it comes to setting standards or how money is spent or how to decorate it or ... -=-

I added this to the quotes generator here:
sandradodd.com/unschooling

[Bronwen Felesina]

OH this is invigorating to hear all these great replies! Thanks.

I wanted to ask- it seems that my always unschooled (at least with chores) kids went through this sort of broadening of horizons during thier seventh year, almost like they started looking up and around to other people more or something- and by the time they were eight, they (well, I have only two children that have been eight!) started helping out more. My little boy who is almost eight just recently started helping out and noticing things that where being done that he didnt notice before.

SO I am wondering if others have seen a pattern like this (or close to this). I tell people that it has been my experience in a free house- but it would be neat to have other people who have noticed this too. WHen I say "helping out" I really just mean awareness and helpfullness - not real hard core doing everybodies laundry. It seems to help moms who have the idea that freedom "isnt working" cause thier three year old just ignores the toys on the floor.

Thanks
BRonwen

[Bekah]

i've wanted to reply to this for some time now...but have not had the chance...
i have posted about chores and housecleaning on other lists and it seems to be a common topic.
i feel as though i have come to a good solution for those problems in my home...organization, organization....whoops..i'm a little unorganized...let's just get organized again...no biggie.
hampers, bins, buckets, and baskets can be your friends here.
also a little mental yoga concerning the "shoulds" about house maintenance.
For instance, Aidan, why did you clean out the fridge and steam clean the carpets in one day?
Ants are a problem so I see the need to deal with that...do you have an apartment handy man who could do something about that for you? The kids eating in the front room seems to be getting you down...maybe some of those snack trap bowls for crackers would be a good idea...give them drinks in take and toss straw cups so if one gets tipped over it won't spill immediately or very badly...get some cool dinner trays to use in the front room so balancing bowls and plates on knees doesn't cause problems...Scotchgard things that may need it...move the toys and projects into the dining room...
basically set up the environment where your kids and you are going to be as successful as possible.

I have a "home-ec" day most every week...this is when i clean the bathroom and dust and sweep and mop etc (all those deep cleaning things that need to be done just so the house is not going to pot)
i don't expect Micah to help me...although he does occasionally...he loves using the swiffer duster thing. :) and i am sure to let him know how much i appreciate these helping times.
he will help pick up toys if i ask him and when he helps i am right there picking up too. i will usually say something like "yeah let's get out that puzzle/game/blocks, that sounds like fun...let's put this one away first so it is not in our way" as i am picking things up...he usually helps but if i do most of the work...oh well. i'm the mom, i had these kids, that's life...i will always be picking something up, cleaning something up, my whole life...my mess or others. the key word here is "let's"..let us do it...together. and sometimes breaking things down into little chunks helps kids see where they can start.

Micah came to me one time and said (referring to his and River's front room escapades) "oh this is a big mess what will i do?"...so i helped him figure out to start with the dinosaurs...just that...and i will pick up these puzzle pieces...only that. everything wasn't picked up...i mean Martha Steward was not coming to visit :) but enough of the rug was seen that Micah felt comfortable again.

Feeling overwhelmed by stuff? Bookshelves. i have noticed that Micah will keep his room relatively clutter free since ditching the big bottomless pit of the toy box and putting in shelving. He sets up these little scenes on them and they become another play space. Bonus: the little scenes are not all over the floor as often. In the evenings i pick up a little so that things are off his bed or around because he has fallen out of bed before and call it good.

i really can't say how liberated i feel now that i have given up the notion of the perfect clean house. i do my cleaning for the week and spot pick up when i need too, maybe run a Lysol wipe in the sinks, and i am done.
i have two baskets in the front room for the baby things and pick up after him as he goes along. i don't think unschooling means that you can't ask your kids to help you...just don't get bent out of shape when they have other plans. and set things up so they can play without too much clutter.

get rid of stuff...i yard sale and spring clean every year and as my poor husband knows not getting rid of something is not an option. well i feel like this post is rambly and disjointed...my main point being to just get your mind around some real practical things you can do to get more organized with your time and stick to it. set your kids up for success. don't feel like you have to do it all...could the fridge have waited for some other time? the carpet? the laundry?

you may have more time to join in the fun if you expected less of yourself. and if your kids felt a less stressed you they may start to see that cleaning up is not something to be dreaded, but just a natural part of going about the day.

[Tammy]

This was an area that was/is hard for me. I have three boys who like to mess ,a dh who likes clean, and me , well, let's just say my family called me MONK.( I was sooo OCD'ish about perfect clean ) So needless to say I had a list for everyone to do everyday to keep the house in order ( read perfect ) before we started unschooling. And after we started unschooling ....well I have a list ,it's just smaller :) ( hey im workin' on it)

I still have a list of things that I want done. I just made it easier on myself by doing things that helped me , like labeling and organizing everything so everyone knows where everything goes . I restructred my Laundry room to hold a hugh table to fold clothes on and a basket for each person , so if I don't get it done I can just shut the door. It's much easier for me if I am not "in " the mess. And bins in the toy room to hold the mess , made it much better for me.

They also know that while the upstairs is basically theirs to play in and scatter mess about. The downstairs just isn't.I let them know I don't care if they want to play down here all day , thats fine , but the mess has to go back up stairs with them .

I also I would love to say I totally grasp the idea of letting it go , but I haven't. I do most of the work , but I do tell them that they have certian things that are going to be asked of them , and they do it. They help with the dogs ( their pets) and keep their space clean (not totally clutter free , but just clean)they help dh with the lawn , and clean their own bathrooms.

Since your kids are old enough I don't think asking each one to do just one thing a day would be bad.

Not really on the radical unschooling wave length , but im still in the "I haven't let go yet , but I am trying " stage of it.

[Amberlee]

I know how you feel! Ok not the pampered children part, but feeling like I am completely overwhelmed by housework. Although we have unschooled in learning and many other areas, I too have had a tough time with working together to clean up. I have had some of the same feelings. My DH gets frustrated with it as well. This is something I am working on.

It is difficult because chores were always imposed on me, and many times I said "whatever" and refused to do them because mom would just redo them or tell me what a horrible job I did. I don't want it to be that way for the kids, but I don't want them to feel leaving it really messy or gross is appropriate either. I have shown them Flylady.net and we have started discussing it. I ask for help and if they want to great. The other issue here is that I have a lower back injury so it can get horrible here quickly if not kept up on. For the most part my children understand that. When I ask for help they can say no, but sometimes I worry they say yes not because they *want* to do the work but because they worry I will be mad if they say no. Like I said, we are working on it.

I have been trying to find what each child likes to do or is good at. DD is fabulous at sparkling the stove and counters and making beds. She enjoys it. She hates doing laundry. The soon to be teen is alway "put out" if asked to help. But I think that is just hormones as he used to enjoy doing laundry. LOL I figure if he wants clean clothes he will toss in a load for himself. My other son hates cleaning his room, or at least picking it up alone. He usually wants me to help, no problem there. He doesn't like dishes, he wants to mow the lawn, but he is still a little small for our mower and has a heck of a time trying to get up our hill, so he will have to wait a bit for that. (he has been begging to mow for a few months now....he tried last year too and couldn't get very far). He is great with the vacuum though and will happily vacuum a room or two if he sees the vacuum is out.

I think we have anger because we do so much, had to deal with it as kids and see our children having a "happy, carefree" childhood and deep down we are not angry with them, we are completely and utterly jealous! It is a matter of having to fix me, myself. And it is truly difficult to do after sooooooo many years of bad programing.

[Amberlee]

Oh my gosh, are you my sister? LOL That sounds like my mom and home as a kid. And it was NEVER clean....it was always cluttered. We refused to do dishes once the dishwasher broke and so my mom was always fighting with us. They had promised to get it fixed and months went by, so we went on strike and I never did another dish till I left at 17 for college....

I have heard of that book, I will have to find it and see what the languages are all about. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Sandra Dodd]

One small problem:

-=-Since your kids are old enough I don't think asking each one to do just one thing a day would be bad.-=-

The word "just" seems a throw-away word, but it's huge. If you ask them to do just one thing a day, then they will do just one thing.

[Meredith]

I hadn't noticed before, but Mo just turned 7 and its really only over the past few months that she's started noticing when and where George and I need help around the house. Before she would help if we were doing something or if something was in her way - and now there's a more general awareness.

Interestingly, Ray doesn't have that same kind of general awareness. He's still at the point where he'll clean something if its obviously a mess and he wants to do something in the space. I have no idea if that's a boy/girl thing or a schooled/unschooled thing or a personality thing!