housework

[aidan sutherland]

I'm slowly integrating unschooling into every area of our lives, and the housework issue is really proving difficult for me. I think I need an attitude adjustment- please help me explore the nether regions of my brain.

Firt off, the situation at my house. I'm a single mom and I have four kids ages 9, 7, 5, and 4. I'm not talking about a one baby and one toddler level of housework. This is a LOT more work than that. Four free big kids exploring and playing can very quickly trash an entire house and create several hours of work. And of course there is no other adult to pitch in.

My mom's attitude towards housework was that we would do our chores and help when we saw her working or else. So I get bent out of shape, deep down, when I'm working and other people are standing around or having fun. Does anyone have similar feelings and any ways to counteract that thinking? How can I help myself be more ok with the fact that my kids will cheerfully trash a room with toys and food all over the floor and then run off to do something else, or even demand I do something for them while I'm trying to clean up after them?

Seriously, I resemble the maid of four pampered royal children. That's just what it looks like to me. Please help me find another way to understand this situation.

I have a lot of anger around this, and I know that in itself hinders the process of nurturing a helpful attitude in my kids. I'm afraid I often don't ask for help because I can't help expecting it- as in 'you should buckle down and do it cheerfully!' and then blowing my top when they don't do anything.

I used to try to 'make' them do chores, but that amounted to me trying to follow four divergent bodies around, yelling. I was outnumbered, and it just didn't work. Not to mention that the yelling just had to get louder.

Sorry this rambled on so much. If you're still reading, do you have any advice for me?

[Julie B]

Completely different situation here with one kid (two soon) and two adults, but I did have to learn to live with messes. Lowering my (previously sky-high) standards did a lot for the well-being of everyone in the house.

I have friends who insist on their young children putting their own toys away, and that's as far as my experience of enforced housework goes (other than my own experience as a child). What I've worked through is realizing that I'm responsible for my own happiness. I can certainly request something of others, and they are free to say yes or no. Probably if you're deschooling housework, you're going to hear "no" more often and it will take extra layers of patience and efforts to keep everything in perspective.

--So I get bent out of shape, deep down, when I'm working and other people are standing around or having fun. Does anyone have similar feelings and any ways to counteract that thinking?--

Yeah, have an ice cream cone. Read a chapter of a novel. Or put on some speed and finish those dishes really fast and *then* have an ice cream cone. Or drop everything and join in the fun. Seriously, do whatever you can to feel better as soon as possible--whatever you can that doesn't depend on others performing in a certain way for you.

There are a lot of things I can drop (dusting! daily toilet cleaning!) to improve my own level of happiness.

[laura bowman]

ah but how can they do it cheerfully if you are not?? that is the question. and one i had to work through myself (and still do some days). i found a great deal of help from sandra's site about joy and housework. i am not feeling too wordy today so i'll just pass on the links. i hope they help.

http://sandradodd.com/chores
http://sandradodd.com/control
http://sandradodd.com/joy
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully

her site is filled with gems. if you haven't read it yet, you should!!

[aidan sutherland]

I think the biggest part of my attitude problem with housework is my motivation for doing it. I do not have too high standards to worry about- those are just impossible in my situation. I do it because the kitchen floor is sticky, or because the fruit flies are getting out of hand or because the bathroom stinks or because I can't walk without stepping on stuff. Of course there's always wiggle room, and I could be doing more and keeping up with it better- after all I am sitting here typing! But it feels like a tidal wave to me- it overwhelms me. So it's kind of a fear relationship. I think I need to focus more on the bit that I'm doing and stop thinking about all the rest of it piling up. Because how can I 'invite' my kids to join me in keeping up the house without having a change of attitude about the work?

I read quite a bit on this subject at Sandra's site, but it's still very hard for me to accept the idea that the messes my children make are 'my' messes to own. That feels like mom waiting on everyone else. I get that by having kids I invited a lot more work of every kind into my life, but the scenario we are living here is one where the kids strew food and toys and projects and and each get what they want to eat and leave everything out while I clean. In some ways, at this point in our journey of unschooling food and tv and cleaning, we look like the typical nightmare that immediately springs to the mind of anyone hearing about RU for the first time. I'm exaggerating a little, but you get the picture.

Thanks for responding, this is a conversation I really need to be having with some RU folks.

[Julie B]

--I read quite a bit on this subject at Sandra's site, but it's still very hard for me to accept the idea that the messes my children make are 'my' messes to own. That feels like mom waiting on everyone else. --

Can you see any natural concern for cleanliness in your kids that you can see as a starting point?

In our case, it's Dmitri yelping "Wiiiiiiipe!!!" in utter panic when his hands feel messy. If you watch "Monk," it's an eerie resemblance. Just the other day he was really happy playing with other kids in the mud as long as we could be there with an emergency wipe. Yeah, that's extreme. Maybe not the best example! But is a genuine awareness of his desire to be clean in a particular moment.

He also wants the table in front of him clean when he spills food. Sometimes he'll wipe it up himself, and sometimes he'll want me to do it for him.

Dmitri's circle of clean is really small right now. Really, really small. But it's there, and at times he wants to participate in maintaining it. He'll put dirty clothes in the hamper, for example. He wants to straighten blankets sometimes. (Although most of the time he wants to heap them up to build a nest.) Sometimes he wants to participate in household tasks just because of the fun factor, like loading/unloading the washer, pouring soap in, and pressing the button.

Maybe it would help if you could identify where your kids' circles of clean are right now. What things do they do? And then you could turn your focus to watching each circle as it evolves.

If I'm upset about a mess, it's not my mess in terms of who produced it, but it's definitely my issue. One of the best things I've learned is that everything is so much better when I take responsibility for my own issues, because no one else is ever going to care about them as much as I do, however much I may manipulate or insist. I am perfect designed to handle my own issues.

[aidan sutherland]

Circle of clean- I like that, thanks, Julie. It brings me around to a tried and true parenting skill- focusing on the parts that 'are' working. Not in a 'rewarding the behavior' sense, but in the sense that a viewpoint that only sees the negative in the situation isn't very realistic.

It's hard for me to look at this issue without my own agenda as my primary goal. So immediately my mind goes, 'oh yeah focus on what they 'do' pay attention to as far as cleaning- then 'encourage' them to expand that (see it my way). What I think I really want to do here is to see my kids as people who do have an awareness of cleanliness and order- at their own level, and be focusing my attention on the evidence of that. Sort of measuring them by the yardstick of who they are, instead of by my vague memories of what was expected of me as a kid or what my mother thinks kids should do around the house. Or better yet, throw the yardstick out and really see them as they 'are' in relation to having a clean environment.

Ok! I think I just had a moment where housework clicked into my sense of what RU means in my family! Thanks everyone!

[Joyce Fetteroll]

** So I get bent out of shape, deep down, when I'm working and other people are standing around or having fun. **

Getting rid of the old scripts is something separate and actually a whole lot harder! ;-) When your brain starts down resentful pathways, pull it back and turn it to things you do appreciate about them. Really look at them and feel their joy. Look at all the stuff you're privileged to be able to give them. What if one of them died tomorrow? Those are some of the techniques people have used to help get them out of the thinking ruts we can fall into.

Subscribe to Scott Noelle's "Daily Groove". He sends out *short* daily emails about changing your way of seeing and interacting with kids.

** How can I help myself be more ok with the fact that my kids will cheerfully trash a room with toys **

By seeing it as play rather than trashing. Change your language. Change how you view it.

Then rethink how things are stored and played with to make clean up easier. Maybe some toys could be moved to a different room if they're a huge clean up. (Like Legos. Recently several people said they put a big sheet down for kids to build on. Seems to me there may have been a plastic pool, too, to store them in so the kids could see the pieces without dumping them.)

Maybe all toys could be in the same room.

Get big bins to throw stuff into. Make it a game.

That's all that's coming to mind at the moment.

** and food all over the floor **

Rethink. What exactly is making the messes? Rethink how it's delivered to them. Or don't let everything leave the kitchen. Or maybe next to nothing for a while.

Conventional parenting would make it a rule and punish for breaking it. Just make it the way it is. "It's too hard for me to clean if food is getting into the toys. Let's keep it in the kitchen for now." Let them test as they get older their ability to not mush the food into everything.

There's no one way of handling it, but more of an awareness of the individual pieces of the problem rather than lumping it all under the category of "food".

** then run off to do something else, or even demand I do something for them while I'm trying to clean up after them? **

Right now it's their job to explore in a big way. They need there to be no delays ;-)

Try to see the passion in their eyes. What's the world like when you're just full of the burning desire to do! :-)

Joyce

[Ren]

~~** So I get bent out of shape, deep down, when I'm working and other people are standing around or having fun. **~~

I used to get that. It still surfaces on occasion,but mostly I feel a sense of joy now when cleaning while someone is having fun. Like I'm giving them this wonderful gift. When I truly need help I have several willing helpers too. So I know that part of it is just something people grow into.

Last night we had a big,full, noisy house. We were eating, drinking, dancing, talking etc...and the result of all that fun was a messy kitchen. GOOD! As I picked up while my kids played, I had this lovely sense of fulfillment...seeing all that mess as a symbol of a life rich with friends and interesting events and knowing deep inside that I won't always be here, I won't always have these moments so it's a beautiful mess.

It took me years to get to these kind of reactions. But I'm glad I don't always have the old tape anymore. It came from my Mom. That's something she gave me that I finally said "No thanks Mom, I'm not going to carry that one around anymore".

Interestingly enough, it was through her that I unlearned that crappy response. Through her cancer and death I started becoming more Zen about messes and my inner work over how I respond.

I also found great help in studying Zen and reading "Wherever You Go There You Are" by Jon Kabat-Zinn. I don't want to make it sound like resentment never surfaces, because it does. I get to examine it again and do more peeling away. Fun stuff right? It is quite often that my kids help with that peeling away process now. They're pretty durn insightful.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-I read quite a bit on this subject at Sandra's site, but it's still very hard for me to accept the idea that the messes my children make are 'my' messes to own.-=-

This isn't a quote from that site!

If you have a vision of how the house should look, that's yours. If you have "rules" in your head like not leaving the house until the dishes are done, that's in YOUR head, not in the house or the dishes. And maybe not in other people's heads.

-=-but the scenario we are living here is one where the kids strew food and toys and projects -=-

I understand you're using "strew" in a literal, normal way, but as it's used as something rarified and cool in unschooling discussions, could you be careful about saying it's what kids are doing when they leave food around the house?

I think it's worst in families that go from assigned chores to any kind of change. Chores train kids to do just barely what they have to do, and not a bit more. It will take a few months and the nicer you are during that time, the better it will be.

I know it sounds stupid on the surface, but if any of you could see how my kids cleaned up last night when there were ten people eating in two rooms, or how Kirby said "Leave that, I'll get it" to me this morning, it would make more sense.

[aidan sutherland]

Sandra, I didn't mean to imply that I was a quoting your site! The concept of mom 'owning' and having responsibility for everyone's messes was just one idea that I was grappling with, that I had picked up from many of the posts quoted on your site.

I thought of that use of the word, 'strew' as I wrote it, and hoped no-one would take it wrong. The particular scene I had in my head was of my five year old ds crumbling most of a loaf of bread all over the floor (sort of absently while watching tv). He was literally 'strewing' it all over the floor!

Please try to remember that I came to the forum to ask for help with my own attitude. I'm not trying to stand up for the idea of requiring kids to do housework or forcing them to see things my way.

I think my stuckness with the housework issue has to do with this: when people talk about how their standards belong to them, not others, and how they have to own their own thoughts about housework standards, their examples just aren't within the realm of my reality. Like, doing the dishes before you leave the house. I would never go anywhere if I had to do the dishes before I left the house. I'm not trying to pick on your example, just saying that those examples always sound like that to me. Like 'if only I could afford to be so fussy'. But I don't want to get stuck on that. I want to find some peace.

I agree with you that it's worse because I used to try to make them do housework. I really appreciate people who see something that needs to be done and jump in to help. So my goal has always been to nurture that in my kids. I guess that since I'm that kind of person, I assumed my mom's method of handling kids and housework must have worked with me. But I could see it was creating what you describe- kids who would do exactly what they were forced to do and no more. So I stopped making them. But I need to go further than just not making them work. I need to overhaul my attitude about kids and housework and responsibility and how it grows.

I think I'm getting a clue now. It's been great, being able to lay out my internal business here and get some feedback!

[Kim S.]

I, too, am working my way through reframing my thoughts, and easing out of the idea of chores and rules. One thing that helps me is when I remember the "cool" neighbors' house across the street when I was growing up. The place was always a mess. Books were everywhere, the kitchen was never completely cleaned, bathrooms were marginal, there was always "stuff" scattered everywhere. But, there was also always music, laughter and fun. What do you think made a bigger impression on me as a kid? It was a place where we could totally relax and just BE. My own house was different, and as a result, the idea of chores and rules has been ingrained in me. I'm working to learn to see things differently. I'd love to have the house where everyone feels welcome, no matter what the place looks like. I'd love to be the mom who is always happy to be with her kids, and to have friends of every age in the house at any time of the day. It's all a matter of reframing ... harder said than done, but not impossible!

[Meredith]

Sandra said: "Chores train kids to do just barely what they have to do, and not a bit more. It will take a few months and the nicer you are during that time, the better it will be."

This has been the case with Ray for sure! When he first moved in with us (gosh, almost two years ago!) we asked that he help with the dishes. Oops. He was used to dishes being a chore, so after a few weeks he slid back into the habit of doing a bare minimum of dishes, even stacking them in weird ways in the dish drainer to take up as much space as possible so he could "get away with" less. Ultimately, we stopped asking Ray to do the dishes and to this day he rarely washes a dish.

After a few months of living here, though, he started doing other things to help out without being asked. He keeps his own room clean. He does laundry. He cooks dinner about half the time, now. He's frequently willing to look after Mo for short periods of time so George can run some errands - especially useful with our single car and failing truck situation.

Julie said: "Maybe it would help if you could identify where your kids' circles of clean are right now. What things do they do?"

That's been really helpful for me in terms of not feeling resentful toward my kids. They do what they can do, when they have the time and energy and motivation (and sometimes the motivation is me saying "Help!") and its beautiful to see! Even if its not always as convenient as I might like.

[Meredith]

Ren said: "As I picked up while my kids played, I had this lovely sense of fulfillment...seeing all that mess as a symbol of a life rich with friends and interesting events and knowing deep inside that I won't always be here, I won't always have these moments so it's a beautiful mess."

Yes yes yes! Its funny, now that I'm working FT I love to come home and see a mess in the living room. Its like having tangible proof that the people I love were having a wonderful time while I was away - that's why I'm working, after all! So seeing that mess, and knowing from my past experience as the at-home parent what kinds of fun led up to that mess is very satisfying.