7-yr.-old son being breathtakingly mean to me

[Denise Rodriguez]

Hi all--

I've got an issue that seems to be escalating, and I'm not sure how to handle it. We pulled our son Logan out of 1st grade in April, so we're still very much in the deschooling process, and I thought it was going well so far. (Meaning, everybody seemed to be happy, and I felt like Logan and I were closer than ever.)

But lately, Logan's been disrespectful, rude and frankly, just plain mean. Mostly to me, but sometimes to my husband, too.

Here's today's example: I was on my computer (having just finished playing a game of Monopoly with him, which he quit because he wanted to watch a TV show that was coming on). He was sitting next to me on the couch, and started reaching over and pressing my keyboard while I was trying to read my email. I asked him to please stop, and he kept doing it. This went on for a few minutes, until I finally asked him calmly why he seemed to be trying to deliberately annoy me. It wasn't rhetorical, I really wanted to understand. He did what he's been doing lately whenever anybody asks him a question he doesn't want to answer--he clapped his hands over his ears and yelled, "I'm not going to listen to you!"

I told him that was very rude, and he said, "So? I don't care."

At this point, I was upset and felt like I needed to remove myself from the situation before I said something punitive, so I got up and told him I was going to go into my room to try and calm down and then we'd talk.

He climbed up on the arm of the couch and said, "Oh yeah? Well, I'm going to jump on the couch and you can't stop me!" (I had already asked him to stop jumping on the furniture twice today.)

I said, "You're right, I can't. So I'm going to my room to calm down, like I said."

At this point, he bolted ahead of me into his own room and slammed the door. Over and over again. That's another one of his new things. And STILL, I kept my calm and when he was done slamming I went in and asked if he was ready to talk. He responded by throwing hot wheels at me, and one hit my foot pretty hard.

I said, calmly, again, "Well, Logan, I'm not going to stand here and let you throw cars at me, so I'll be in the living room when you want to talk."

After about 15 minutes, he came out and literally lay down on top of me, snuggling like nothing happened. The storm had passed for him, but I was, and am, still full of resentment. We had planned to watch the Spongebob marathon together, but I'm finding myself not really in the mood to watch TV with a kid who was being so hateful to me earlier.

When I told my husband about all of this, he said, "I don't want to hear it. This is your doing. You never say no to the kid anymore, and now you wonder why he's behaving like a monster."

Today is just the latest example. It's almost like Logan is TRYING to make me explode in anger like I used to. Why would he want that?? It makes no sense.

TIA for any and all insight!

Denise

[Heather Greek]

I'm thinking he wanted to be more than with you, he needed you to interact with him. He felt alone when you were doing email then he felt alone when you said you were leaving the room. Why didn't you get off the computer and go be with him? Negative attention is still attention and that's what it turned into for both of you.
Do you offer an alternative for jumping on the couch? I have a small mini-trampoline. Tonight i brought it inside into the living room.
Instead of asking him why he's trying to ignore you,ask yourself what he needs. Why would you hold a grudge against him by not watching t.v.? It seems like he needs more of you and remember, have more yes's but there are boundries and limits and finding a way to meet both your needs is better then alienating each other.

[Schuyler]

Breathe.

Now let it go.

Next time see his first thing, the pushing the key on the keyboard thing, as an invitation to come and sit with him on the couch and hang out. Don't see it as an attack, as an invitation to explode in anger, see it as Logan asking you to be with him.

Heather's suggestion for looking for alternatives to jumping on the furniture is a good idea. Look for a mini-trampoline on Craig's list or at thrift stores or go out and get one at Sears or some place. I don't think they cost that much money. Rather than telling him not to do something, find ways that he can do it.

The moment at the beginning when he pushed you, when he played with the keyboard while you were trying to read e-mails, that was the turning point moment. Sometimes those are hard to see. It helps a lot if you see Logan as working to be happy rather than working to aggrevate you. He wanted your company! That's is such a much nicer way to look at his actions. And it may make it easier for you to give him what he wants than if you see him baiting you to get you to explode.

[Denise Rodriguez]

Thanks, you guys. I'm feeling a lot calmer about the whole thing today, and I do agree that I should have just shut the computer and watched his show with him. At the time, I was thinking, Geez, I just spent a whole hour playing Monopoly, can't I take 10 minutes and read my e-mail?? I used to get my computer time in after he went to bed, but now that he has no set bedtime, that "me time" has vanished. (Not to mention couple time with my husband--all gone.) Please understand, except for the two days a week that I work, Logan has my engaged attention and my company all day, every day, well into the night. (He sleeps with us, too.)

Anyway, he just woke up, so gotta go. Thanks!

[Heather Greek]

Denise, Everything your describing is stuff that I too have to figure solutions and sometimes it's not easy. As for alone time with my husband, We put in a video and we tell him that we want to have time alone. Has it always worked? haha...sometimes but enough that he is understanding it.
As for time alone, i totally get wanting that! My son is a big talker/always moving,action guy. Sometimes i want to think, brainstorm ideas for art and there are times when i try but get interupted and think "crap, can't i think for a few minutes?" So, what i do is tell my son at night i want some quiet time to do something.
I remind myself everyday this gem: He is never going to be this age again,it is fleeting,I will never have this much time with him as i do now!
He sleeps with me,wakes with me,stays up late...2am as i do. A couple of days ago we both went to bed at 9am and when he fell asleep i got up for a couple of hours. He woke up earlier because of it. Not good for me,i'm not a morning person.

Denise Rodriguez said:

Thanks, you guys. I'm feeling a lot calmer about the whole thing today, and I do agree that I should have just shut the computer and watched his show with him. At the time, I was thinking, Geez, I just spent a whole hour playing Monopoly, can't I take 10 minutes and read my e-mail?? I used to get my computer time in after he went to bed, but now that he has no set bedtime, that "me time" has vanished. (Not to mention couple time with my husband--all gone.) Please understand, except for the two days a week that I work, Logan has my engaged attention and my company all day, every day, well into the night. (He sleeps with us, too.)

Anyway, he just woke up, so gotta go. Thanks!

[Meredith]

Schuyler Waynforth said:

Heather's suggestion for looking for alternatives to jumping on the furniture is a good idea. Look for a mini-trampoline on Craig's list or at thrift stores or go out and get one at Sears or some place. I don't think they cost that much money.

Alternately, look for an old matress or old cushions just for jumping - assuming there's a really good reason why you don't want him jumping on your couch. Is it new? Is it in an unsafe position? When Mo took to jumping on our armchairs - ratty old things, I've recovered them twice but I won't replace them for a few more years - I made sure they were kept firmly up against the walls so they wouldn't tip and asked that she always jump holding on to the back. And I hung a small mirror up over each - too high to hit if she fell, but low enough that she could see herself with a good jump. That was fun, and made facing the back of the chair desirable.

[Meredith]

It's almost like Logan is TRYING to make me explode in anger like I used to. Why would he want that?? It makes no sense.

It does though. His life has changed. Largely, that's a good thing, but its left him a little unsettled, too. That's part of deschooling, figuring out a whole new lifestyle. Kids figure things out by experimenting! And right now, if its been a long time since you exploded, he's wondering when the other shoe is going to drop. That makes responding to his first cues - looking for the underlying needs and trying to meet them (even if you think you've met them a hundred times already today) all the more important. You're creating a whole new pattern of interaction.

He was sitting next to me on the couch, and started reaching over and pressing my keyboard while I was trying to read my email. I asked him to please stop

Try catching his hand and kissing it, nibble the fingers if he likes that sort of thing. Set the computer aside for twenty seconds and cuddle or tickle him. Sometimes that's All it takes! Reading, especially online, can be so engrossing it can seem like the person doing it "isn't there". Its a common complaint of conventional parents wrt kids, after all ;) So its natural that your guy might need a little more connection than Zombie Mamma by his side. Make a mental note to touch him periodically. Give him a pat or a hug... poke him even (in fun) if he likes that kind of thing. Make an effort to not be soooooo deep in your zone that your kid feels ignored. He might want more - but he might not. A moment of connection might be enough.

[Sandra Dodd]

Did he want to come home? You wrote that you "pulled him out of school." Was it against his will?

-= I used to get my computer time in after he went to bed, but now that he has no set bedtime, that "me time" has vanished.-=-

"No set bedtime" shouldn't be "stay up as long as you possibly can just because you can," though.

And you should say no to him when he's doing something that's not okay, when it's something harmful or unkind. "Yes" when it makes sense to say yes, when he'll be learning something cool, when what he wants to do makes sense, but NO the rest of the time, just as you would say to anyone who was in your house or reaching over you to your keyboard or whatever.

[Denise Rodriguez]

Heather, I've already raised three kids (17, 19, and 23), so I do know that this time with Logan will be gone in the blink of an eye. That does help me relax and breathe and keep things in persepective. But I was a relaxed, confident parent with the others and I feel like with this new parenting style, I've somehow lost my mojo! Out of my four kids, two have been challenging, and Logan is one of them. Like yours, he is always talking and moving (which is why he was always getting trouble in school). At the end of the day, I sometimes feel like I felt years ago, when I had a toddler and an infant--just completely burnt and "touched out". I guess I wasn't expecting to feel this way again after all these years.

Meredith, what you wrote makes perfect sense, now that I think about it, about Logan waiting for the other shoe to drop. Things are pretty different around here than they were just a few months ago, so it's natural that he feels unsettled and is so clingy. I am very physically affectionate with him, but he literally hangs on me like a monkey all day long, to the point where my 17. yr. old will say to him, "Geez, Logan, give Mom a break, will ya?" He even sometimes asks me to carry him like a baby, which I do. Also I should mention that he's back in our bed every night after three years of being out, a development my husband is not happy with at all.

As for the couch jumping, it's not so much that he has a need to jump on the furniture, as it is that he has a need to do something that he knows drives me nuts. And yes, I admit it: kids jumping on the furniture drives me crazy--it's annoying, dangerous and destructive, and it's one of my few "no"s. Our house is tiny, and it would be too easy for him to bounce off and crack his head on the table or the entertinament center. He's already been to the emergency room three times, for broken bones and cracked heads. The last time we were there, they took his picture, presumably because he's getting to be a frequent flyer.

Sandra, after he was suspended from school for the second time, we offered him the homeschooling option, and he wanted to do it. And yeah, we definitely have to rethink the bedtime thing, because having Logan bouncing off the walls at midnight is not working for any of us.

Thanks again to all of you!

[Linda Hessel]

"It's almost like Logan is TRYING to make me explode in anger like I used to. Why would he want that?? It makes no sense."

Maybe it does. When you are exploding in anger, it's a least a clear sign that you are paying attention. And if he's angry at you, then your anger can also a sign that he's succeeded in getting back at you, made you feel the way he does, tit for tat. The thing is, that's what he understands. You've thrown a whole new thing at him, but he's still playing by the rules of the old dynamic. So you refusing to engage with him looks to him like 1) you don't care and/or 2) that his attempts at retaliation are not working. Both feelings would serve well to ratchet up his outrage way beyond what it was originally.

It is okay and good to say 'no' when appropriate, but it's not in itself going to stop him from "behaving like a monster". That's going to take figuring out what you have to do for him to feel that you're on his side and that you do care. I'm guessing here, but a few things you've said make me think that he's well aware of your general unhappiness with the situation and is taking it personally, and that insecurity is growing out of this. More access and even interaction won't help that but more actual connection will. Something as simple as, when he indicates that he wants your attention, that you turn to him and look him in the eye and wait until he's done. And being committed about that. When I think about what makes me feel secure in any relationship, that's key. The people who most have my devotion and love are the ones that do show me consideration and favor in that way.

[Kathy T.]

"No set bedtime" shouldn't be "stay up as long as you possibly can just because you can," though.

My boys have no set bedtime either and this is what I feel like they are doing. How can I help them regulate themselves. With my oldest, I can understand his reasoning. He's been playing WoW now for awhile and he gets involved and forgets that he's tired.

My 2nd son, Aiden, sounds very similar to your Logan. And as of late, he's been very volitial (sp?) and his mood changes at the drop of a hat. I'm hoping that this is just a phase. I'm feeling very torn because he is demanding all of my attention and I have 3 other boys that I feel aren't getting enough from me. And I'm exhausted at the end of the day. I feel like I'm running out of patience. He has been telling me that he wants to play with his friends more and he's getting bored just playing with his brothers. I hear him, but it's a matter of when his friends can play as well. I guess, I'm just trying to figure out how to give Aiden the attention he wants and not short change his brothers.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-How can I help them regulate themselves.-=-

 

Don't think of it as "regulation."

http://sandradodd.com/self-regulation

 

-=- I guess, I'm just trying to figure out how to give Aiden the attention he wants and not short change his brothers.-=-

 

If the brothers aren't complaining, spend lots of time with Aiden.  Give him so much attention he's not bugging them.  "Short change" is about counting pennies.  Don't divide your time into minutes and try to give each child an equal number of them.  Try to give them what each  needs.

[Kathy T.]

If the brothers aren't complaining, spend lots of time with Aiden.  Give him so much attention he's not bugging them.  "Short change" is about counting pennies.  Don't divide your time into minutes and try to give each child an equal number of them.  Try to give them what each  needs.

 

The only one that I see getting misplaced is my 3rd son, Keegan. He's not very vocal about a lot things...well, most things. But, I see it in what he does. He is being overshadowed by Aiden and I don't know what his interests are because he follows Aiden's lead. And if he doesn't a huge fight takes place.