"Bedtime" issues

[Linda]

Hi everyone,

We have been doing attachment parenting/unschooling since our kids were born. We didn't really know Unschooling existed as a concept until very recently, but most of what we were already doing was very similar to the philosophy, letting ourselves be guided by our kids. Nonetheless, we are learning SO MUCH now and life is changing even more for us and we are extremely grateful for it.

BUT... we are exhausted. Our kids just don't need much sleep at all. They have always been able to sleep and wake when and where they wanted to and they seem ok with it, although sometimes Leo (5) is pretty tired during the day. But he catches up every once in a while and can keep going energetically as if he had had 12 hours of sleep.

This is our situation: Leo usually goes to sleep around midnight... but he wakes up at 7!!! He's only 5. And Luna (2) doesn't go to bed much earlier than him, maybe around 11. She does wake up a bit later, though, and usually takes a nap during the day. But she often takes late naps and then just isn't EVER tired at night. Today she fell asleep at 7 and woke up at 10 and we ended up walking around the house until 3am! She wanted to watch a movie, then she wanted a strawberry, then more movies, then downstairs, then upstairs... and Dad and I just can't handle it any longer.

We need some time for ourselves. We need time to talk, watch a "grown-up" movie, write an email, or just do something different. And that time starts VERY late every night. Right now it's 4am and I just needed to write all this, otherwise I won't find another moment to do so.

I've read in several places that maybe "free" bedtimes don't work for everyone but, what other option is there? Sometimes we try to keep Luna up, playing non-stop so that she won't take a nap, but that's not very kind, really. And we can't really force them to sleep, that's completely against our beliefs. And they always need me to nurse them to sleep, and they usually need to nurse for about 2 hours before they wake up too! So we spend so many hours with the sleeping issues it's really getting frustrating.

Any ideas? How do you find time with your partners/spouses? How do you all get the housework done? Meals? Walking the dogs? How do you get anything done? I just can't seem to do it without having to say "not right now, honey" and letting them down.

Thanks for reading :).

[Alan Marshall]

We've had some similar challenges in our house lately. Our 21 month old dd is wide awake until about 2 or 3 AM each night. I've found it helpful to remind myself that this would be happening even if we didn't unschool or practice mindful parenting. With children it is always harder to find time with one's spouse, get the housework done, take care of pets, etc. An unschooling mindset makes these challenges less daunting because we have a much wider variety of solutions to consider than mainstream parenting can offer.

***Sometimes we try to keep Luna up, playing non-stop so that she won't take a nap, but that's not very kind, really.***


I don't think there is anything wrong with encouraging peaceful sleep at night and fun, exciting wakefulness during the day. Of course, it's all in the details. If a parent's only agenda is preventing a nap and he/she is thinking "please stay awake, keep playing, please stay awake... oh, no, not again, I'm going to be up all night" then genuine fun is unlikely. But if you're truly doing something so both you and the child will enjoy it and bring your thoughts away from the problem, the child is not likely to feel coerced into changing her schedule.

We've been going swimming in the afternoon around when a nap is likely, and that has helped bring our dd's schedule closer to the rest of the family.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-BUT... we are exhausted. Our kids just don't need much sleep at all.-=-

That was true because of attachment parenting, though, wasn't it? You weren't making them go to bed while they were nurslings, were you?

Kids get older on schedule, even if other things aren't scheduled. No child is two years old longer than a year! It will change and keep changing.

-=-I've read in several places that maybe "free" bedtimes don't work for everyone but, what other option is there?-=-

Some families go to bed together in some really happy way, or the mom will lie down with the kids and get them to sleep and then get up and go hang out with the dad. I used to do that a lot.

[Linda]

Thanks Alan and Sandra!

I agree with you, Alan, that this would happen anyway, even if we weren't unschooling, but it would look pretty different because the kids would just "have to" go to bed and would probably very often cry themselves to sleep and that would be very sad. It would be their problem, not ours, like it was for me when I was young.

When you say we have a variety of solutions as unschooling parents do you mean that we see things differently? That we understand that our kids have needs and that we want to help them meet these needs? Or do you have any other tips for making sleep an easier issue?

It feels good to know that your daughter also goes to sleep late (sorry!). At least I don't feel as if we're doing it all wrong. Back home we had everyone attacking us with all these sleep issues. "You have to teach him to sleep" was the most common phrase we heard and I always found it amusing because Leo sleeps perfectly and peacefully and always has. He just does it when he wants to.

I guess there isn't anything wrong with trying to encourage a different "schedule" if it's important for our family's wellbeing. Tired parents are not at their best and that is how we feel lately. Thanks for your words!

Sandra, in response to your question, no, we weren't making them go to bed. We have really never made them go to bed. They usually fall asleep wherever they are (or wherever I am) and nursing. Leo now asks me to take him to bed when he's tired and he nurses to sleep too. But we all sleep together so I don't think it's a problem of fear of sleeping or being alone. They just don't want to "waste time" sleeping.

We did all go to bed together for a while but it usually didn't work because they just found it incredibly fun and would literally spend hours jumping and running around and over us in bed. What we usually do is that I "sleep" them and then go with their dad, like you said. The only problem is that when that happens, we're already both VERY tired.

But what you say about them growing and changing is so true... and that has always helped us a lot. When you know that phases come and go it's much easier to go through them with an open mind and patience and kindness. It was very hard for us before we learned that, because we were always scared that some situations would last forever. Now I realise how absurd that was!

Thanks again!

[Jennifer Peterson]

I wanted to jump in because we are dealing with a very similar situation. My husband gets up at 1 am for work. My 4 yr old and 2 yr old are on different rhythms as well. My 4 yr old may go to bed at 7 and sleep until 8 the next morning, then my 2 yr old will fall asleep around 9 and get up at 6 am. This rhythm is always changing as well. We sometimes have very late nights as well. We have a family bed that is a queen size bed and twin tied together with a co-sleeper on my side (we are expecting our 5th in Sept.). My husband goes to bed at 6 pm. So we have put locks on our doors so he can sleep and not be bothered then bring the boys in around 9. My 4yr old may go in sooner but understands that daddy “needs” to sleep so he can go to work. Your 5 year old understands frustration and needs. Explaining that you are tired and really discussing some solutions with his involvement will really help I think. We put an extra TV in the boys’ room. So the boys can watch movies in big boy beds but still can have the comfort of sleeping with us. Don’t forget the well-known rule of sleeping when the baby sleeps. My 2 yr old will bless me with a nap here and there. I tell my 5 yr old that I am tired and need a nap too and he will usually come and lay down with us and watch a movie while we nap or I will nap in the boys’ room while they play. We are constantly looking for new solutions because our situation is constantly changing…there will be a new adventure around the corner when the new baby comes lol.

Linda said:

Thanks Alan and Sandra!

I agree with you, Alan, that this would happen anyway, even if we weren't unschooling, but it would look pretty different because the kids would just "have to" go to bed and would probably very often cry themselves to sleep and that would be very sad. It would be their problem, not ours, like it was for me when I was young.

When you say we have a variety of solutions as unschooling parents do you mean that we see things differently? That we understand that our kids have needs and that we want to help them meet these needs? Or do you have any other tips for making sleep an easier issue?

It feels good to know that your daughter also goes to sleep late (sorry!). At least I don't feel as if we're doing it all wrong. Back home we had everyone attacking us with all these sleep issues. "You have to teach him to sleep" was the most common phrase we heard and I always found it amusing because Leo sleeps perfectly and peacefully and always has. He just does it when he wants to.

I guess there isn't anything wrong with trying to encourage a different "schedule" if it's important for our family's wellbeing. Tired parents are not at their best and that is how we feel lately. Thanks for your words!

Sandra, in response to your question, no, we weren't making them go to bed. We have really never made them go to bed. They usually fall asleep wherever they are (or wherever I am) and nursing. Leo now asks me to take him to bed when he's tired and he nurses to sleep too. But we all sleep together so I don't think it's a problem of fear of sleeping or being alone. They just don't want to "waste time" sleeping.

We did all go to bed together for a while but it usually didn't work because they just found it incredibly fun and would literally spend hours jumping and running around and over us in bed. What we usually do is that I "sleep" them and then go with their dad, like you said. The only problem is that when that happens, we're already both VERY tired.

But what you say about them growing and changing is so true... and that has always helped us a lot. When you know that phases come and go it's much easier to go through them with an open mind and patience and kindness. It was very hard for us before we learned that, because we were always scared that some situations would last forever. Now I realise how absurd that was!

Thanks again!

[Meredith]

"You have to teach him to sleep"

Snort! That's a funny one. The most you can do is teach them to put up with being alone in a room, staring at the darkness.

Mo needs a little less sleep than I do. At times George and I traded off "night watch" - when she was too young to be up by herself - but we also worked on making it possible for her to be up without help, have snacks and drinks ready, and movies she liked (and I could sleep through) all laid out in the bedroom so she could hang out with a night-light and play quietly or watch a movie while we slept.

Its okay to have a winding down ritual if that's something that works for your kids. Some families lower the lighting after a certain time, put on gentler music or movies that are restful. Some people need time to wind down. Mo has an evening ritual of her own that involves running around the house for awhile and then settling in for a movie or some serious construction with legos or paper.

We've played around with sleeping locations, too. For awhile Mo's bed was in my closet, an arms reach from me, so close enough for comfort, but neither of us (me or Mo, I mean) slept well pressed right up against each other, so the space was good. I know other families who change around beds and rooms - put all the beds in the living room or whatnot. Ray used to fall asleep on the couch when he was younger, and if George was too tired to carry him to bed he'd make sure to get up early and be in the same room when Ray woke up.