Consequences

[Sandra Ostapowich]

I discovered last night when looking at my iPad after my (8 yr old) son had played with it that he had figured out how to download some games. I didn't go into it much since it was late and I was tired, but I told him he couldn't download games without my permission and changed my password so it wouldn't be possible anymore.

So I'm out at lunch today with my mom (visiting) and my son. And I get an email notification from iTunes about some recent purchases. No big deal, it's the silly kid games he downloaded yesterday. 3 emails later, and the app and in-app purchases total over $250.00!! Money is really tight right now and I'm really lucky this didn't cause some bounced checks.

I ask him how he figured out my iTunes password. He very matter of factly says that Grandma told him. Grandma gets all defensive and says she was tricked into telling him. (Granted, my password is one I've used for years for just about everything - the name of a cat I had in college who's been dead for almost 15 years. And had a tricky-to-spell Cree name.) She says he asked her, very conversationally, if I ever had a cat that died and what was its name? And apparently also asked how to spell it?

Since we got home from lunch, I've filed my unauthorized purchases reports with iTunes. I'm beyond livid and the only thing I could think of doing until I figure out how to calm down and what to do next was take away all electronic toys and send kiddo to his room. He's completely unremorseful - almost oblivious - to what he has done. So I know I'm going to have to have a conversation to explain it all somehow.

But beyond that...???

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-No big deal, it's the silly kid games he downloaded yesterday.-=-

 

Maybe you should have let him download a game WITH permission.  And not call them silly, maybe, perhaps.  And not let him use your iPad because he knew he asked for a password to do something he knew he wasn't supposed to do.  

 

-=-...and changed my password so it wouldn't be possible anymore.-=-

 

Can you get him Plants vs. Zombies, maybe?  Angry birds?  Some cool games?  And not leave him to find things to download?  And accept that maybe his desires are real and the games are good (not silly)?

[Meredith]

 I told him he couldn't download games without my permission and changed my password so it wouldn't be possible anymore.

 

Some questions to consider:

Why not? What was your reasoning at the time? Did you let him know games cost money and you need to check your balance and see what you can afford at any given time? Are you transparant about cash flow or is it all a mystery to him?  Is the issue money or something else? A combination of things?

 

I'm guessing its a combination of money and a privacy issue - like the idea of going into someone's private things. The trouble is, those sorts of messages aren't understood by children the way they are by adults. Why would mommy want to hide anything from me? What's so special? It's also natural for children to want to do the things adults do - that's part of how they're learning to be adults, after all. So rather than making it all even more of a special, secret, forbidden thing, it would be better for you to step back from thinking of an iPad as being so very personal. Do things with it together - look things up, order things, play games, be open and transparant so that you can be his partner in exploring the world of the iPad.

 

He's completely unremorseful - almost oblivious - to what he has done.

 

You make it sound like he robbed a liquor store ;) Really, he made a mistake. He doesn't understand your finances or your expectations and as a result he did something awkward and inconvenient. Locking everything down doesn't help him understand one bit - and taking away his things, even less. In fact, if punishment has been the norm in your home, its reasonable for him to be unremorseful. He's used to thinking of that as the "cost" of getting what he wants.

[Sandra Ostapowich]

I knew that was going to come up. I shouldn't have called them silly. I meant that at the time I didn't think it was a big deal.They were free games, he's had a couple of them in the past and lost interest quickly because I wouldn't allow the in-game spending of REAL money to advance.

He does have fun, cool games to play. And that's what I thought he was doing when he was playing on my iPad in his room - because that's what he's done before. Angry Birds, World of Goo, some cool NASA stuff, etc. I don't usually say no to downloading games - unless it's unusually expensive (which is more like - it's not in the budget this month, let's wait a couple of weeks) or is one of those with in-game purchasing. Until I got the receipts from iTunes today, I thought he had just downloaded free games using my password that he somehow figured out. A violation of trust, but no serious harm done so not a huge deal.

I've since talked with him and he understands that it's "stealing" to use someone else's money without their permission to buy something that you're not supposed to buy. But that's about where it ends. He doesn't understand the value of money (nor do I really expect him to) so the concept of "stealing" doesn't really have much significance.

I guess that's where I'm having the most difficulty figuring out how to handle the situation. The password stuff is my responsibility, as is the $250 lesson (if iTunes won't reverse the charges). Helping him learn that stealing isn't OK is my bigger concern.

[Meredith]

I don't think it will help to put things in terms of "stealing" - its not like he took it from a store or a neighbor, he was using his mom's account.

 

It seems like its more a money issue, then? How do y'all talk about money and shopping in general? Does he have an allowance? Do you budget part of your spending money to "homeschool"? Think of it in terms of budgets and allocating funds and reshuffling finances.  If you suddenly found something your really wanted at a sweet deal, what would you do? Do you just tell yourself "no" and expect your kids to do the same? Its not an expectation that tends to bring a lot of happiness to relationships.

[Nance Confer]

Yes. That is often the answer. But not one this young child understands, obviously.

 

I would stop talking about consequences and stealing and start talking about the reality of your finances -- in a non-scary way -- and working on building trust. "We are in this together and I want to give what I can but here's where the line is" is more likely to get through and build long-term trust than "You stole from me and have to face consequences."

 

[Sandra Ostapowich]

The money issue is the most hard-hitting, and hopefully that'll all be resolved. It's been a long, bad day for other reasons and this really caught me off-guard so I'm sure I overreacted a bit - although not nearly as much as I would've in the past.

 

I knew I didn't want to fly off the handle and impose "random" punishment, so the "time out" was more for my benefit than his I suppose, while I got my head together. He didn't have to be sneaky, but was. He didn't have to download without permission, but did. Maybe that's what we need to talk about more than the "stealing". It's going to be really hard to explain the value of money in this situation since it's not actual currency that was involved. Fortunately, the lack of electronic games for a couple of hours has resulted in him wanting to learn to play Monopoly.

[Joyce Fetteroll]

*** so the "time out" was more for my benefit than his I suppose ***

 

Next time try the time out for yourself. If you need to be away to cool off and think rationally, take the time. :-)

 

*** He didn't have to be sneaky, but was. ***

 

Apparently he felt he did need to. There's something in his relationship with you that made him feel it was better not to ask. If you've changed your parenting recently, he might be playing out past scenarios where he saw you as a roadblock to his explorations rather than a partner. It will take time and lots and lots of outcomes different from what he pictures for those memories to fade.

 

*** Maybe that's what we need to talk about more than the "stealing". ***

 

What would your goal be for talking about it again? Do you think he''ll do it again? If you are picturing him in that light it's going to damage your relationship with him. A mom in town said that the principle at the one elementary school treats the kids with the assumption they're good but made a mistake and need help to make better choices and the kids are well behaved. The other elementary school the principle assumes they're all trouble makers and the discipline is horrible. (It's a small upper middle class town so it's not a difference in kids or families.)

 

Think about how you feel if you've made a mistake and someone treats you as though you were someone who would do that deliberately.

 

It helps to assume kids are doing their best but something is in the way of them doing better. Trust him. Trust that he wants to do right but he has needs that he's trying to meet. And part of growing up is meeting your own needs without help. If he chose a not best route to meeting a need, help him do better. And until he does better, he still needs your help.

 

I'd let this situation go. Look at him and see a child who is doing the best he can.

 

*** Fortunately, the lack of electronic games for a couple of hours has resulted in him wanting to learn to play Monopoly. ***

 

Fortunate for who, though? From what you've written you're still locked into seeing how wrong he was to do what he did. So it sounds like you mean fortunate for you that your choice resulted in something good from your point of view. But it will help you communicate better with him to see from his point of view. From his point of view he's making the best of a bad situation. But for the flow of unschooling, for building relationships it's better to avoid making choices that put a child in a bad situation.

[Nance Confer]

The money issue is the most hard-hitting, and hopefully that'll all be resolved. It's been a long, bad day for other reasons. . .

 

No, money issues won't be resolved with fixing this problem. Whether you pay the bill or have it forgiven. The money issue is with your family and between you and your son. In these tight times, money issues color so many of our interactions, it is frightening.

 

I see myself being very tight with money when money is tight. The kids pick up on it. Then there's a pay day. I know it but they are still in penny-pinching mode. I have to remember to say, "It's OK. Get the jeans. We can afford it right now." My kids are older and aware but they still don't have all the information about household finances and can only work off of my mood and the information I give them.

 

Even if the actual question of the day is not about spending money, our moods can be grimmer, narrower, tenser, etc., if we are insecure about financial matters underneath it all. I try to be aware of that but am not perfect and then, later, see that I was less upbeat on some days, etc.

 

Which may or may not bring us to the "long, bad day." Were other issues playing into all this? How distracted were you? How bored was he? What else was going on that allowed all of this happen? Not that we need to know all the gory details but other events may help provide context for your considerations.

 

[Ben]

I think I'd explain it in concrete terms... Not make a big deal out of the stealing thing per se, but explain that $250 is about three weeks worth of groceries for my household (Obviously, adjust based on your actual expenditures) and how I budget our money so that we can have food and drinks and medicines and toilet paper and so on, and how horrible it would be if we didn't have all those things for 3 weeks.

 

Depending on how the conversation went and how interested he was, i might go into how a budget works, and the various things we have to spend our income on, how we try to save some each month for things like vacations and emergencies and replacing our cars when they wear out, and presents and nice things we might want (Like games), and how we could dip into those savings or not save money in a month instead of going without food, but that would set back our saving up for nice things like Christmas and trips to fun places, and we might not be able to get presents as nice at Christmas that year, or we might not be able to take a planned trip, or the car might break down before we have enough money to replace it.

 

But naturally only if he was interested in all of that.

[Sandra Ostapowich]

I got an email today from iTunes - they're reversing the charges. (whew!)

 

I know I need to work on finding ways to say yes more. The challenge there is that my son is in a very materialistic phase in which he will actually verbalize "If you love me, you will buy me things I want," and "If you buy me things I want, it means you love me." I just plain can't afford to buy him enough things to show him I love him in that way!

 

The Monopoly thing ended up being pretty cool. I knew it'd be something he'd be interested in playing for a long time, but he's been too occupied with games on the computer to consider something so "old school" as a board game. And the kid who has trouble with math concepts "gets it" with money and was even beginning to grasp the value of money while playing the game. He plays computer games with that use money, but it's not as concrete a concept as when you have the paper bills in front of you. It'll be helpful to use that to explain how real life works with income and expenses and why I can't always afford to buy him whatever he wants whenever he wants it. Not as a lesson, but when it comes up. :)

 

And yes, there were a lot of factors that led to my reaction to the situation, as well as his actions too. I had been traveling last week and my mom is visiting. "Routines" were changed, Grandma's ways are different (bedtimes, bed locations, mealtimes, meal locations, ADHD medication, "school lessons", etc.). I have my own issues with my mother and her staying an additional week after I got back was extra stressful (on a scale of 1-10, I usually hover at about an 8 when she's around). I've also been on high-dosage Prednisone for the last 3 months, which makes me puffy and emotional. And it's "shark week" (that time of the month), and everything all together made for a really bad combination just waiting to be ignited.

 

I didn't handle it great, but at least I did do better than I have in the past. That past is probably one of the bad habits my son and I both need to unlearn in our relationship, and it's going to take time. And that's why I posted, looking for help from you more seasoned parents. :) Thank you.

[Meredith]

I know I need to work on finding ways to say yes more. The challenge there is that my son is in a very materialistic phase in which he will actually verbalize "If you love me, you will buy me things I want," and "If you buy me things I want, it means you love me." I just plain can't afford to buy him enough things to show him I love him in that way!

 

You might be surprised! One of the effects of saying yes rarely is that kids will ask for more than they really want - because it can seem like asking a Lot gets them a little. It can take time to transition out of that, but it does help to say yes more. Actively look for ways to buy him things that are within the budget - be the first one to say "hey, there's an extra $20 to spend this week, do you want to get something?" so he can feel loved. If you're out without him and see something you think he'd like, get it - the same way you might buy something for yourself or a friend on a whim.

 

There's a cultural bias against gifts and spending money as a sign of love, but for some people, gifts naturally say "I love you". If you can think of it as a kind of "love language" rather than a character flaw, it becomes easier to look for ways to express affection in ways that work for your child.

 

the kid who has trouble with math concepts "gets it" with money

 

That's a good reason to bring him into the family finances more. Its also worth thinking about the fact that you're fine with him using money as a learning tool, but not "just spending". It's the same sort of thinking as putting down "just playing" - there's learning going on, even if you can't see it. Would you blow $250 on a curriculum or set of classes you weren't sure he'd use? That might change your perspective on the cost (easier now that you're not spending the money) - what if you called it "educational"?

[Nance Confer]

You might throw in a dose of cynicism as well as info about your finances.

 

Commercials and marketing devices are not there because anybody loves you. They don't exist so parents can show love. They exist to push the next new thing and make money for widget makers.

 

And, shocking concept, they aren't always honest. Compared to, say, how much ice cream you can buy with $250, are downloads from iTunes worth the money? Just because iTunes says so or its on TV, doesn't necessarily make it so.

 

And you might spend time noticing flaws and exaggerations in all kinds of advertisement. The laundry soap you buy? Why choose that one? Will your whole life really smell like a spring flower if you do? And is that something you want or wanted before some ad said you should? Etc.

 

Noticing why we want to buy what we do might help in trying to figure out what is worth it and what to leave on the shelf.

 

And some of the commercials are just downright funny when you really look at their claims. :)

 

Nance