cursive handwriting

[Heather Greek]

should children be encouraged to learn to write in cursive? My husband and i are having a disagreement over this. I think it's outdated and my husband wants Lukas to learn it because he might in the future get a letter wrote in cursive and he won't know how to read it. I ague that probally isn't going to happen and if it does (waiting for that one chance in a thousand) he gets one and can;t read it i am sure he could figure it out or have someone read it to him. I think even writing is rare now a days with email and text and such. Has this come up with your family? What do you think am i right or my husband?

[Lily]

I never learnt cursive formally (was absent from school a lot) and ended up developing my own style of 'joined up' handwriting, which is legible to others. I write fast (though type more these days) and feel that my half cursive/half print style facilitates that.

 

The only time I wished I could write more beautifully was when I was using flipcharts in professional fora - I had a colleague with the most beautiful, regular cursive handwriting whose flipchart pages always drew positive comments. She, however, wasn't so happy with her handwriting as she remembered what it had cost her spirit to get to that level of uniformity.

 

I'm letting my daughter draw her own conclusions - she prints and sometimes adds 'tails' or flourishes to letters and we discuss how they might add up and which joins would make her handwriting quicker (seeing me write fast means she aspires to doing that). However, If I had to help her choose I'd suggest she prioritise her typing skills (though I think by the time she's adult we'll probably be long past mere typing and using more voice activation etc).

 

[Femme]

 Sorry, but I think your husband is right. Normally, I usually always side with the Moms regardless. This rare time is different. Why would you want Lukas to have to wait to depend on someone else when he could just do it his self? Independence is freedom.

Besides the short simplicity of that answer, the very long, complex, scientific answer is;

that occupational therapists, have observed a generation of children who are not fully developing their fine motor skills.This is true for typical children as well as children who are struggling. The small muscles in the hand develop as we use them for precision skills. Handwriting is one of those precision skills. We use different sets of muscles to hold the pen correctly with a tripod grasp than with a less refined grasp. Cursive writing is usually taught later than printing because we need even more muscle control to guide the pen smoothly across the page as we connect the letters to form words. The stop and start movements in printing do not encourage those muscles to develop endurance or "flow" as cursive writing teaches. These same muscles are the ones that help children with manipulating clothing fasteners (Can they button and tie their shoes well?) If we raise a generation of children that don't fully develop their dexterity then who will take over the jobs later that require fully developed fine motor skills (surgeons, scientists, computer technicians, Etc...).  

Cursive also teaches spatial skills as we automatically leave spaces between words while writing in cursive. This helps to develop visual skills in a way that video games/electronics cannot reinforce. Also, if children never learn how to write in cursive, they may also struggle to read cursive writing like Lucas if not taught. So much of what is written in historical documents will be as a foreign language to him.

  Once we start cursive writing lessons, their overall fine motor dexterity improves significantly. They also improve their reading skills as they learn to see how letters form to connect words rather than writing individual letters that may not be connected at all by their visual systems. Most importantly, their self-esteem improves as they are proud of their work that looks "grown-up" in comparison to many of their peers.  

So I PLEEASE beg of you. For Lukas and all readers. Let's not handicap our students by not allowing them to fully develop their motor and visual coordination skills. Let's not limit their future career choices because they don't have good fine motor coordination. Cursive handwriting practice does so much more than take up precious time to learn, but actually enhances skills in many other areas. It would hurt more not to learn cursive than to learn. The true question is........

SO, WHY NOT?   

[Robyn]

  When my sons were younger they worked with the Italic handwriting and then cursive handwriting books by another publisher.  Handwriting without Tears or something like that.  They only worked out of them for a total of a few months over a two year period.  They are now 16 and 13 and they can write in cursive but choose not to do so.  They can read cursive with no problem.  I write in cursive on our white board and they can read it.   The local school district has stopped teaching cursive or will be doing so soon.   The way technology is anymore, I don't think people will be handwriting anything. 

[Meredith]

So I PLEEASE beg of you. For Lukas and all readers. Let's not handicap our students by not allowing them to fully develop their motor and visual coordination skills.

Your concern is misplaced. This is a radical unschooling forum, so we don't have "students" we have kids living busy, interesting lives pursuing their own goals on a regular basis. "Students" need to develop skills. Busy people, happily engaged in what interests them, grow a variety of skills naturally. Occupational therapists have seen a generation of children confined to classrooms from too early an age, their opportunities to explore and create limited - it's no wonder they're seeing deficits. Have you read any of Peter Gray's work on the conflation of education and child development? It's very poignant. 

My daughter is 10 and does not write in cursive, but I'd defy anyone to describe either her visual or fine motor skills as poor. They aren't the All same skills school children have, but then school children don't have the luxury of being able to spend most of a day making paper sculptures or building with legos, or painting, or drawing their own graphic novels, or creating computer animations, drawing the images with the mouse (a skill which astounds me - with the mouse! I can't even follow a simple curve with the mouse and she draws as well as with a pencil). She finds some handwriting difficult to read, and some fonts, too, and we've used that as a chance to talk about legibility versus presentation and aesthetics - how sometimes form is more important than content or function. Those are important topics for a person who is interested in communicating a variety of ideas in a visual context - which Mo is.

Cursive also teaches spatial skills as we automatically leave spaces between words while writing in cursive.

Did you know that children who are not taught to write tend to naturally develop the concept of space between words? If you're interested in natural learning, I recommend the book Literacy Through Play as a nice, academic discussion of the ways children develop reading and writing skills in an open classroom environment. It's interesting to note (to me anyway) that the progression kids often use, that of inserting a specific mark in between words before evening out their spacing so the space between letters is significantly smaller than that between words, parallels the historical development of letter and word spacing. I recommend the book Space Between Words if you're interested in that subject (although it's a dense, scholarly read, you'll want some knowledge of either medieval history and/or the brain science of reading to be able to follow it, still it's a great book). 

Cursive is one way of solving the visual puzzle of word separation, but it doesn't "teach" the concept unless children encounter joined-up writing exclusively Before printing. Otherwise word separation depends on the Difference in the space between letters and that between words. Some children naturally carry that difference over into writing, but others spend some time exploring the way text is created... unless they are dissuaded from actively exploring writing by too much teaching. 

 Also, if children never learn how to write in cursive, they may also struggle to read cursive writing like Lucas if not taught. So much of what is written in historical documents will be as a foreign language to him.

Some fonts are more difficult to read <shrug> including handwriting "fonts". Older styles of handwriting can be difficult to decipher, regardless. Many older historical documents aren't written in script - but that doesn't make them simpler to read, necessarily, as conventions for letter shape, spelling, and word separation have changed a great deal over the centuries. Schools don't teach older modes of spelling conventions overtly, and yet many people learn to read historical works without being taught. Did you never read Chaucer for fun? That's not just shifted spelling conventions but larger shifts in the language - and its still good fun to puzzle through. That's how unschooling kids learn a great many things, including academic type skills - it's fun and interesting to explore the world in all its complexity. 

[Meredith]

The true question is........

What does your child want to do?

That's the question. If he or she wants to learn a neat new way of making words and letters, go for it.

SO, WHY NOT?

If the question is "why not teach x?" then it would be a good idea for you to read a bit more on the subject of radical unschooling before posting here. You're welcome to ask questions! But advice should be advice about unschooling, not teaching skills. There are tons of teaching resources, and many fewer for parents who want to explore learning in partnership with children. Here are a couple good websites to get you started:

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/

http://sandradodd.com/unschooling

[Joyce Fetteroll]

** Normally, I usually always side with the Moms regardless. **

I believe people here should make thoughtful choices and "side" with what makes logical sense for unschooling.

** Why would you want Lukas to have to wait to depend on someone else when he could just do it his self? Independence is freedom. **

An unschooling environment should be a rich one where kids are encountering a wide variety of potential interests. My daughter saw a fair amount of cursive as she grew up. 

The beauty of unschooling is if a child stumbles across something they want to know more about, they can explore it themselves or ask. Moms should be aware and offer more if a child seems interested.

** Besides the short simplicity of that answer, the very long, complex, scientific answer is **

Are these scientists studying their own kids that they're raising at home in a rich, supportive environment with parents who are connected to their kids and their kids' interests?

If not, then I assume they're studying institutionalized kids. Kids who are taken out of the real world and put in artificial environments with a single adult responsible for helping them learn. The findings in the environment have nothing to do with living and learning in the real world.

(I think it's quite interesting that people are seeing kids who are lacking fine motor skills as schools are pushing academics into earlier and earlier grades. It used to be kids spent their early years in school cutting and working with clay and lacing cards. But that wasn't seen as good enough learning. So now they're doing reading and math readiness in kindergarten and preschool. And then wonder why kids hate math and aren't as dexterous as they expect them to be.)

The parents here are, in effect, studying their kids who are growing and learning in the real world accessed from their homes. The parents here are responsive to their kids' needs. The environments aren't desks where children are trapped for hours a day. They're real environments where people are doing real things that involve the skills that people need to live life and explore interests. There's no reason a child won't be using their fine motor skills living at home, interacting with real world objects throughout the day.

** The stop and start movements in printing do not encourage those muscles to develop endurance or "flow" as cursive writing teaches. These same muscles are the ones that help children with manipulating clothing fasteners (Can they button and tie their shoes well?) **

Why would people need artificial ways to develop muscles they'll need in the real world? It seems odd that anyone would suggest that it isn't until someone reaches adulthood that they would need to use fine motor skills and then think that children need taught cursive so they can be surgeons. These people -- or the children themselves -- are way too removed from the real world to think or see clearly.

** Cursive also teaches spatial skills as we automatically leave spaces between words while writing in cursive. **

And cursive is the only way to learn that? People couldn't reason specially before cursive was wide spread?

That's the problem with seeing learning through school lenses. If it's accepted that schools have a lock on how to develop skills then school ways seem necessary. If people step back away from school and see that these skills are a natural part of life in a rich environment that's free for exploring as the child's interests spark him, then school isn't necessary.

** This helps to develop visual skills in a way that video games/electronics cannot reinforce. **

You state that as fact. It's obvious you've never explored the worlds created for video games. The spatial thinking needed to navigate the levels and worlds is far superior to anything that schools can offer. The math available is numbers  and concepts being used for real purposes. The reading is words being used to provide information needed to solve the puzzles.

** Also, if children never learn how to write in cursive, they may also struggle to read cursive writing like Lucas if not taught. **

If they *want* to read it, mom is there to help as much as they want her to. Schools suggest that help prevents kids from learning. What unschoolers know from experience is that kids only ask for as much help as they want. If it's something interesting or important *to them* they want to be competent at it and will ask for less and less help as they gain knowledge.

IF you haven't seen the TED talk on Drive, please do. (It's not too long and cleverly animated.) It will help you understand unschooling better:

http://youtu.be/u6XAPnuFjJc

** So much of what is written in historical documents will be as a foreign language to him. **

In school if someone misses a week when a one time topic is covered, they're (supposedly) out of luck.

In real life, all topics are available essentially all the time. One of the big advantages is that kids can -- and come to fully embrace -- learn anything they want whenever they decide they need it.

If he's interested in historical documents he can learn to read cursive. My daughter encountered maybe a couple dozen or so cursive letters and notes in her years at home. She pushed through them because she wanted to. Cursive was a curious, intriguing puzzle to her and the notes were of interest. She asked for help when a word baffled her. By the time she was 18 she had enough experience with a wide variety of fonts and different ways letters could look, enough experience with contextual clues that she could read any cursive she encountered. 

That's how natural learning works.

 ** Once we start cursive writing lessons, their overall fine motor dexterity improves significantly. They also improve their reading skills as they learn to see how letters form to connect words rather than writing individual letters that may not be connected at all by their visual systems. Most importantly, their self-esteem improves as they are proud of their work that looks "grown-up" in comparison to many of their peers.  **

This is undoubtedly true of kids in school. If they're being compared to standards, being compared to other kids and told they aren't as good, then mastering the skills can be a boost. (It can also be soul crushing when they keep trying and continue to fail.)

In real life, kids don't need to be compared. They can learn in whatever order strikes them. If a child isn't writing cursive at 15, it's not a big deal. If they decide it is, then their desire for it will drive them to suck in the knowledge.

In real life, kids don't need to read on someone else's schedule. Unschoolers know that kids are learning in ways that schools can't support and that are much better for learning some knowledge than reading.

** Let's not handicap our students **

We don't have students here. We have kids learning and growing through their interests at home. If you come to an unschooling convention I can guarantee you won't find a teen that's lacking in motor and visual coordination skills!

** Let's not limit their future career choices because they don't have good fine motor coordination. **

If you think people here care more about a philosophy than they do their kids, then you should flee!

If you believe we do care, then you will learn more about how unschooling worlds by asking how kids develop motor skills and so forth rather than assuming we're living in lala land no even noticing our kids can't use their fingers or order blocks so they aren't touching or some such.

** Cursive handwriting practice does so much more than take up precious time to learn, but actually enhances skills in many other areas. **

In school where opportunities are limited to the poor, artificial tools allowed in the classroom then artificial means are needed to develop skills that would normally be acquired naturally.

** It would hurt more not to learn cursive than to learn. The true question is........ SO, WHY NOT? **

Because it's being done in response to fears that aren't real rather than for real world reasons. If you read about the history of cursive, you'll find it was developed for dip pens because they worked better when kept in contact with the paper. That hasn't been true of commonly used writing instruments for over 50 years. As cursive continued to be taught beyond the mechanical need of it, a myth developed that it was faster. John Holt believed it. He challenged some kids to a race. He found that printing was actually faster.

Joyce

[homemadeus]

Umm... i read you whole plea, and all i can think is since when surgeons and scientist are known for their excellent cursive handwriting skills?

Femme said:

 Sorry, but I think your husband is right. Normally, I usually always side with the Moms regardless. This rare time is different. Why would you want Lukas to have to wait to depend on someone else when he could just do it his self? Independence is freedom.

Besides the short simplicity of that answer, the very long, complex, scientific answer is;

that occupational therapists, have observed a generation of children who are not fully developing their fine motor skills.This is true for typical children as well as children who are struggling. The small muscles in the hand develop as we use them for precision skills. Handwriting is one of those precision skills. We use different sets of muscles to hold the pen correctly with a tripod grasp than with a less refined grasp. Cursive writing is usually taught later than printing because we need even more muscle control to guide the pen smoothly across the page as we connect the letters to form words. The stop and start movements in printing do not encourage those muscles to develop endurance or "flow" as cursive writing teaches. These same muscles are the ones that help children with manipulating clothing fasteners (Can they button and tie their shoes well?) If we raise a generation of children that don't fully develop their dexterity then who will take over the jobs later that require fully developed fine motor skills (surgeons, scientists, computer technicians, Etc...).  

Cursive also teaches spatial skills as we automatically leave spaces between words while writing in cursive. This helps to develop visual skills in a way that video games/electronics cannot reinforce. Also, if children never learn how to write in cursive, they may also struggle to read cursive writing like Lucas if not taught. So much of what is written in historical documents will be as a foreign language to him.

  Once we start cursive writing lessons, their overall fine motor dexterity improves significantly. They also improve their reading skills as they learn to see how letters form to connect words rather than writing individual letters that may not be connected at all by their visual systems. Most importantly, their self-esteem improves as they are proud of their work that looks "grown-up" in comparison to many of their peers.  

So I PLEEASE beg of you. For Lukas and all readers. Let's not handicap our students by not allowing them to fully develop their motor and visual coordination skills. Let's not limit their future career choices because they don't have good fine motor coordination. Cursive handwriting practice does so much more than take up precious time to learn, but actually enhances skills in many other areas. It would hurt more not to learn cursive than to learn. The true question is........

SO, WHY NOT?   

[Femme]

   Lol! I know tell me about it!

   As mentioned before, it is not about the writing alone. I even left out other valid reasons of that "book". It is a much grander scale than that. I am sure you already know that though. Assuming, you already read everything......... SO, WHY NOT?   

homemadeus said:

Umm... i read you whole plea, and all i can think is since when surgeons and scientist are known for their excellent cursive handwriting skills?

Femme said:

 Sorry, but I think your husband is right. Normally, I usually always side with the Moms regardless. This rare time is different. Why would you want Lukas to have to wait to depend on someone else when he could just do it his self? Independence is freedom.

Besides the short simplicity of that answer, the very long, complex, scientific answer is;

that occupational therapists, have observed a generation of children who are not fully developing their fine motor skills.This is true for typical children as well as children who are struggling. The small muscles in the hand develop as we use them for precision skills. Handwriting is one of those precision skills. We use different sets of muscles to hold the pen correctly with a tripod grasp than with a less refined grasp. Cursive writing is usually taught later than printing because we need even more muscle control to guide the pen smoothly across the page as we connect the letters to form words. The stop and start movements in printing do not encourage those muscles to develop endurance or "flow" as cursive writing teaches. These same muscles are the ones that help children with manipulating clothing fasteners (Can they button and tie their shoes well?) If we raise a generation of children that don't fully develop their dexterity then who will take over the jobs later that require fully developed fine motor skills (surgeons, scientists, computer technicians, Etc...).  

Cursive also teaches spatial skills as we automatically leave spaces between words while writing in cursive. This helps to develop visual skills in a way that video games/electronics cannot reinforce. Also, if children never learn how to write in cursive, they may also struggle to read cursive writing like Lucas if not taught. So much of what is written in historical documents will be as a foreign language to him.

  Once we start cursive writing lessons, their overall fine motor dexterity improves significantly. They also improve their reading skills as they learn to see how letters form to connect words rather than writing individual letters that may not be connected at all by their visual systems. Most importantly, their self-esteem improves as they are proud of their work that looks "grown-up" in comparison to many of their peers.  

So I PLEEASE beg of you. For Lukas and all readers. Let's not handicap our students by not allowing them to fully develop their motor and visual coordination skills. Let's not limit their future career choices because they don't have good fine motor coordination. Cursive handwriting practice does so much more than take up precious time to learn, but actually enhances skills in many other areas. It would hurt more not to learn cursive than to learn. The true question is........

SO, WHY NOT?   

[Femme]

Which is what I did. Besides I mean well.

Joyce Fetteroll said:

** Normally, I usually always side with the Moms regardless. **

I believe people here should make thoughtful choices and "side" with what makes logical sense for unschooling.

** Why would you want Lukas to have to wait to depend on someone else when he could just do it his self? Independence is freedom. **

An unschooling environment should be a rich one where kids are encountering a wide variety of potential interests. My daughter saw a fair amount of cursive as she grew up. 

The beauty of unschooling is if a child stumbles across something they want to know more about, they can explore it themselves or ask. Moms should be aware and offer more if a child seems interested.

** Besides the short simplicity of that answer, the very long, complex, scientific answer is **

Are these scientists studying their own kids that they're raising at home in a rich, supportive environment with parents who are connected to their kids and their kids' interests?

If not, then I assume they're studying institutionalized kids. Kids who are taken out of the real world and put in artificial environments with a single adult responsible for helping them learn. The findings in the environment have nothing to do with living and learning in the real world.

(I think it's quite interesting that people are seeing kids who are lacking fine motor skills as schools are pushing academics into earlier and earlier grades. It used to be kids spent their early years in school cutting and working with clay and lacing cards. But that wasn't seen as good enough learning. So now they're doing reading and math readiness in kindergarten and preschool. And then wonder why kids hate math and aren't as dexterous as they expect them to be.)

The parents here are, in effect, studying their kids who are growing and learning in the real world accessed from their homes. The parents here are responsive to their kids' needs. The environments aren't desks where children are trapped for hours a day. They're real environments where people are doing real things that involve the skills that people need to live life and explore interests. There's no reason a child won't be using their fine motor skills living at home, interacting with real world objects throughout the day.

** The stop and start movements in printing do not encourage those muscles to develop endurance or "flow" as cursive writing teaches. These same muscles are the ones that help children with manipulating clothing fasteners (Can they button and tie their shoes well?) **

Why would people need artificial ways to develop muscles they'll need in the real world? It seems odd that anyone would suggest that it isn't until someone reaches adulthood that they would need to use fine motor skills and then think that children need taught cursive so they can be surgeons. These people -- or the children themselves -- are way too removed from the real world to think or see clearly.

** Cursive also teaches spatial skills as we automatically leave spaces between words while writing in cursive. **

And cursive is the only way to learn that? People couldn't reason specially before cursive was wide spread?

That's the problem with seeing learning through school lenses. If it's accepted that schools have a lock on how to develop skills then school ways seem necessary. If people step back away from school and see that these skills are a natural part of life in a rich environment that's free for exploring as the child's interests spark him, then school isn't necessary.

** This helps to develop visual skills in a way that video games/electronics cannot reinforce. **

You state that as fact. It's obvious you've never explored the worlds created for video games. The spatial thinking needed to navigate the levels and worlds is far superior to anything that schools can offer. The math available is numbers  and concepts being used for real purposes. The reading is words being used to provide information needed to solve the puzzles.

** Also, if children never learn how to write in cursive, they may also struggle to read cursive writing like Lucas if not taught. **

If they *want* to read it, mom is there to help as much as they want her to. Schools suggest that help prevents kids from learning. What unschoolers know from experience is that kids only ask for as much help as they want. If it's something interesting or important *to them* they want to be competent at it and will ask for less and less help as they gain knowledge.

IF you haven't seen the TED talk on Drive, please do. (It's not too long and cleverly animated.) It will help you understand unschooling better:

http://youtu.be/u6XAPnuFjJc

** So much of what is written in historical documents will be as a foreign language to him. **

In school if someone misses a week when a one time topic is covered, they're (supposedly) out of luck.

In real life, all topics are available essentially all the time. One of the big advantages is that kids can -- and come to fully embrace -- learn anything they want whenever they decide they need it.

If he's interested in historical documents he can learn to read cursive. My daughter encountered maybe a couple dozen or so cursive letters and notes in her years at home. She pushed through them because she wanted to. Cursive was a curious, intriguing puzzle to her and the notes were of interest. She asked for help when a word baffled her. By the time she was 18 she had enough experience with a wide variety of fonts and different ways letters could look, enough experience with contextual clues that she could read any cursive she encountered. 

That's how natural learning works.

 ** Once we start cursive writing lessons, their overall fine motor dexterity improves significantly. They also improve their reading skills as they learn to see how letters form to connect words rather than writing individual letters that may not be connected at all by their visual systems. Most importantly, their self-esteem improves as they are proud of their work that looks "grown-up" in comparison to many of their peers.  **

This is undoubtedly true of kids in school. If they're being compared to standards, being compared to other kids and told they aren't as good, then mastering the skills can be a boost. (It can also be soul crushing when they keep trying and continue to fail.)

In real life, kids don't need to be compared. They can learn in whatever order strikes them. If a child isn't writing cursive at 15, it's not a big deal. If they decide it is, then their desire for it will drive them to suck in the knowledge.

In real life, kids don't need to read on someone else's schedule. Unschoolers know that kids are learning in ways that schools can't support and that are much better for learning some knowledge than reading.

** Let's not handicap our students **

We don't have students here. We have kids learning and growing through their interests at home. If you come to an unschooling convention I can guarantee you won't find a teen that's lacking in motor and visual coordination skills!

** Let's not limit their future career choices because they don't have good fine motor coordination. **

If you think people here care more about a philosophy than they do their kids, then you should flee!

If you believe we do care, then you will learn more about how unschooling worlds by asking how kids develop motor skills and so forth rather than assuming we're living in lala land no even noticing our kids can't use their fingers or order blocks so they aren't touching or some such.

** Cursive handwriting practice does so much more than take up precious time to learn, but actually enhances skills in many other areas. **

In school where opportunities are limited to the poor, artificial tools allowed in the classroom then artificial means are needed to develop skills that would normally be acquired naturally.

** It would hurt more not to learn cursive than to learn. The true question is........ SO, WHY NOT? **

Because it's being done in response to fears that aren't real rather than for real world reasons. If you read about the history of cursive, you'll find it was developed for dip pens because they worked better when kept in contact with the paper. That hasn't been true of commonly used writing instruments for over 50 years. As cursive continued to be taught beyond the mechanical need of it, a myth developed that it was faster. John Holt believed it. He challenged some kids to a race. He found that printing was actually faster.

Joyce

[Joyce Fetteroll]

***  Lol! I know tell me about it! ***

Tell you about what? If you could quote just a sentence or two rather than entire posts it will make it much easier to understand what you're responding to. It makes the thread hard to follow with entire posts tagged onto replies. So please please don't do that.

 ***  As mentioned before, it is not about the writing alone. I even left out other valid reasons of that "book". It is a much grander scale than that. I am sure you already know that though. Assuming, you already read everything......... SO, WHY NOT?  ***

Your reply doesn't respond to any of the points  people brought up that responded to your previous "Why not?" It suggests you skimmed to see if anyone agreed with you.

If you want a thoughtful discussion about radical unschooling, you'll need to respond to those points that people took a long time writing out for you.

There are tens of thousands of sites where people can trade fears about why kids must learn this or that. There are a handful of sites where people can thoughtfully discuss how kids can grow up healthy, competent, joyful and ready for the world *without* being *made* to learn this or that, where they can learn what they find personally rewarding and fulfilling.

If you'd like to find out more about how that's possible, do ask! :-) If you want to know why *you* shouldn't teach this or that then this site can't help you much. People can tell you why they're here to find out ways to make learning happening without teaching out of fear, but if those goals aren't yours then this site will be fairly useless to you.

If you read  and see how we're accomplishing what you fear can't happen -- albeit in a different way, on a different schedule -- and want that, we can help you do that.

So the short answer to "Why not?" is because people here have decided that for their families the potential damage of kids being required to learn what they don't yet value is greater than the benefits. Especially so when kids can learn by pulling the knowledge in when they're interested and desire it. And it happens far far easier than instruction could ever do and without the potential for damage to the child's love of the subject, of learning and to the relationship with the parent.

Joyce

[Joyce Fetteroll]

*** Which is what I did. Besides I mean well. ***

Did what? You did every single thing in my post?? My post was little about doing and lots about relationships between kids and the world. 

Meaning well .... Well, this site is about ideas. People who can step back and see their ideas as existing separate from themselves find this site useful. Those who feel a dissection of ideas is an attack on them personally find the site uncomfortable.

Meaning well and good intentions don't help someone do better. Being clear about one's goals, analyzing whether choices are moving towards the goals, making thoughtful choices, those all help someone do better.

Joyce

[homemadeus]

***so why not?***

Your question is why not make kids learn cursive? Because we unschool :-) The whole idea of unschooling is that kids learn the skills they need without being "made" to learn them.

Why don't I personally? Because if they do not have the need for it or interest in it, it is not beneficial. They learn all the skills you attribute to cursive handwriting from other thing that they do while following their interests. Forcing cursive writing would be pointless and create conflict.

If you go back and read my other posts you will see that even though my children were not taught cursive they can read it. Not because I taught it, but because they learned it though their interests.