discipline issue/question! HELP!

[Kerry M.]

Hi,

I am knew to RU yet and I have a discipline issue I need an answer for. Here is the story:

My 12(almost 13) year old son was over at my SIL's farm on Monday with my husband doing some shop work. My SIL has 3 kids, ages 10, 7 and 2. The older two boys wanted my son to play a game called "Pacman" in the garden(my SIL's garden), they begged him to play(you apparently run around in the garden rows trying to catch people). He must have went along with it and there must have been himself and the two boys, as well as my 6 year old nephew, playing in the garden. I believe the dog(german shepherd) was also chasing around in there. They must have done some damage to the plants(atleast that is what my SIL says). She calls my husband on the Nextel two way while we are grilling on Monday and says something like" I chewed my boys out and now I am going to chew Austin out too". I was shocked after my husband told me this, we couldnt believe he would have damaged a garden as he has two of his own at home here and loves gardening and gets upset when someone goes in his garden. He told me he didnt do it and so I called my SIL up on the phone and she got really mad and told me" I am done having kids over here" " I don't want anyone over here anymore". I of course got angry and told her that I didnt think he would damage things. From there she was saying " I am going to chew him out just like my two boys". I found that a bit offensive and thought I could talk to him myself and dole out whatever punishments ect.. needed. I didnt feel it was her place to rip him out. I understand if he did that or was part of it that he needs to know its not OK to ruin someones property. I wasnt against that part of this but I did take offense to my SIL's tone of voice and her attitude towards how it should be handled. Please am I wrong? should I let her discipline him? I mean they are very traditional parents and spank their children, yell at them constantly and belittle them quite often. I know she will treat him just like she does her own children. I am not imagining it either because even my own mother notices how she is mean to her 2 year old daughter and is overly strict with her(slapping her hands ect..).

I want to do the talking myself and tell him in our own way. So the phone conversation ended with her hanging up on me after I said " Fine maybe I should be done with you then"!

Advice here would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Kerry~

[Meredith]

Well, hindsight and all that... If he plays over there in the future, I'd let him know that your SIL might yell at him for things he doesn't see as his fault and let him decide if he wants to be in that kind of environment. In the shorter term, does he know there was garden damage? Would he like to help fix it? If your SIL hasn't yelled at him (or even if she has) you can talk with him more gently, ask him if that's something he'd like to do. If he's mad at her and doesn't want to help (or any other reason) you can call her back and let her know you've "dealt with the matter" in your own way (if you want to do that). If he does want to help fix things, though, it would certainly be a sweet gesture on his part.

If your son likes playing with these kids, it might be better to invite them over in the future, or offer to take them all to some neutral location, a park, perhaps. That way there's no "house rules" issues to deal with. If you like, you can tell your SIL that you've thought about what she said (she's done with having kids over) and want to give her a break. That way you're coming from somewhere sweet and helpful, not saying "I don't want my kid at your house anyway (so there!)".

[Sandra Dodd]

-=- From there she was saying " I am going to chew him out just like my two boys".-=-

I would have let her talk to him, if it were my sister and my kids. I might have said "Just let her rant and then say sorry" as I handed the phone over, and I might have been standing there rolling my eyes and smiling while they listened, but I would have let her express her frustration. She wouldn't be "punishing" him--not slapping his hands or spanking him.

Part of me speaking to my children as people rather than "kids" is that I consider them people. They consider themselves people. I talk directly to other people's children when they're at my house. I expect other people will talk directly to my children. If they don't, that's their choice. If they choose to go through me, they might not get the dramatic response they had hoped for. If my children hear from other people (adults or children) directly, isn't that part of being in the real world? That's how I see it, anyway.

Sandra

[JennyStar]

My initial response would be to wonder why this mom wasn't being more attentive to her kids and guest children. If she'd bothered to check in on them, she'd have been able to see that their activities weren't all that great, and move them on to something else.

I realize that older kids get left to play by themselves, and you can reasonably assume that they are doing ok, but I always keep an eye on things, even when I have teens over. I pop in to see if anyone needs beverages or snacks, it's part of being a good hostess, and yes, kids count as guests.

All of the garden mishap could have been avoided with a more attentive parent. That is the direction I'd take it. If the mom isn't able to be an attentive hostess to her guests, then, she's right, she shouldn't be having guests over.

[Kerry M.]

Hello,

Thanks for all the replies. I just wanted to add that she didnt invite anyone over as a guest, my kids go over with their dad to work in the shop there on farm equipment. My grandparents live there as well and all the guys go over and work in the nice shop there as it is larger and has more room for fixing machinery ect..

My BIL and FIL and my husband farm land together and they work together on maintainance on the equipment. I can't seem to get over her bossy, nasty tone of voice when she said "I am done having kids over here"! I guess she doesnt see her own kids as causing the problem as well. I just felt as though I could have handled talking to him myself rather then her coming over and yelling at him herself. I have never done that to her children even if I had felt like I should. Talking to him over the phone wasnt an option either as he is deaf with 2 cochlear implants. He would not have heard much! (maybe that would have been better)!! she would have had her say and he would have missed a majority of it!

[greenlee]

Maybe she was upset because the men have these children over, then don't watch them. If that's the case, I don't blame her. It would be really frustrating to have kids running wild over her garden...kids that the males in the family have chosen to bring along.

[Meredith]

Yes, I think I'd concilliate more in that case, even outright apologise and say you didn't realize things were that crazy and you'd try to plan more kid-adult interaction into the deal. Kids on their own territory can use a visitor as an excuse to "get away" with things they don't usually do, so its possible your SIL's kids behave differently when there are other kids over, especially if there's no adult present.

When Ray was younger, his bio mom would take him visiting - that is, she'd visit with adults and he'd be left to find something to do on his own. The adults at the house expected her to set boundaries with him, and she expected them to do it, so no-one was giving him any feedback. I'd hear about it later, as the "third parent" that the neighbors could complain to. When he had someone (adult or older teen) along, helping him understand the boundaries, things went much better, but several friends banned him from their property as a result of the lack of support and communication.

[Amanda]

I know Samuel would do things in a group that he would not do on his own. Especially if the children that lived there were doing it. He knows the boundaries at our house and never thinks to go beyond them. (Read: He knows why they are there and agrees.) The idea that kids would do something at their own house that would upset their mother would never occur to him. He would assume that whatever was going on was permitted.

[Joyce Fetteroll]

I think what may be getting in the way of clear thinking about the situation is a desire to defend your son from injustice and unfairness.

But it's better to trust him to understand the situation and draw his own conclusions about himself and her. What's important socially isn't that he agree with the rightness of her boundaries but that he not cross them at her house. He gets to decide if putting up with the boundaries are worth what he gets from being over there.

She gets to decide how closely to watch the kids, how to discipline her kids, whether to investigate who are the real culprits or whether to blow up and assume kids are wrong just because they're kids. You don't get to decide the rightness or wrongness for her. You and your son get to decide if you want to visit or not.

At her house he doesn't have "rights" (as long as she stays within the law). His right is deciding to go over or not.

He isn't likely to decide he was wrong (if he didn't do something wrong) just because she says he was. He is likely to decide she has some control issues and it's best to avoid her and her buttons.

[Kerry M.]

One part I forgot to mention was the fact that my SIl tends to over exaggerate everything, from sickness to something someone may have done! and judging by this and what my husband saw in the garden (he went and drove over by it when she was gone) this looks like no exception! he told me yesterday that the garden looked completely normal and he couldnt see where anyone would have wrecked anything! I know that when the kids were supposedly running through it playing Pacman she made it sound like the garden was trashed. My son told me nobody wrecked anything and that the dog was tearing through it behind his cousin. I guess either way its no big thing to worry about anymore. I just wanted some honest opinions about how others on here would handle it. Either way she is how she is and nobody will ever change her. I guess it's easier to keep a distance (atleast as much as possible). I just disagree with her ways of punishment and feel like she is way to hard on children (hers and others). My kids call her a #@!$#@, It was just what they see when they are around her at get togethers ect.. I wish she would consider and look at the alternative but that would never happen! she thinks homeschooling is wrong and socially ruins a child. She loves when her kids go to school.

[Kerry M.]

Thanks Amanda,

Yes I know what you mean on the boundaries thing. My 12 year old son would never intentially just go over there and say "Lets run through the garden". His cousin (10) begged him to play with him and I believe he figured he would and even though he told them they shouldnt do it the pull to play from his cousin was just to much for him. He is so careful at home in his 2 gardens and I just couldnt imagine that he would go and wreck another persons garden. I just felt like my SIl was being a bit over the top on her yelling and I wanted to get the full story from him muself and then lay out a punishment my way if needed. When she yells she is so nasty!

Amanda said:

I know Samuel would do things in a group that he would not do on his own. Especially if the children that lived there were doing it. He knows the boundaries at our house and never thinks to go beyond them. (Read: He knows why they are there and agrees.) The idea that kids would do something at their own house that would upset their mother would never occur to him. He would assume that whatever was going on was permitted.

[Meredith]

Kerry M. said:

One part I forgot to mention was the fact that my SIl tends to over exaggerate everything, from sickness to something someone may have done! and judging by this and what my husband saw in the garden (he went and drove over by it when she was gone) this looks like no exception!

That doesn't have to be part of the question of whether or not you concilliate, though. That's a decision that has more to do on how much you want to stay on friendly terms with her, something that might have repercussions as to how she treats your son - or not. You'd know that better than I.