Does embracing unschooling philosophy also mean that we can reject labelling our children?

[Lauren Fisher]

I've been wondering about this over the last couple of days after watching Temple Grandin.

 

If we fully embrace radical unschooling, then should we also reject the labelling of children's "syndromes" on the premise that those labels are simply a way for different children to be defined when compared to the masses?

 

For instance, is a child still "autistic" if they are not compared to other children, if we can respect them as individuals and engage them on their level? As we set ourselves free from conformity, can we also set our children free from comparison?

 

I would particularly be interested of hearing from parents whose children have been "diagnosed". As my girls get older, sometimes I wonder if I should seek a "professional" diagnosis to allow me to understand them better, or should I just accept each daughter and learn who she is without the baggage of the diagnosis.

[Joyce Fetteroll]

You can reject labeling even if you don't embrace the unschooling philosophy! ;-)

It's a topic that comes up often. Here's some discussion to read while you're waiting for replies:

 

Unschooling and Special Needs

Labels and Unschooling

Radically Unschooling "Special Children"

And Labels and Seeing Children Without Labels (though that one might have come from one of the above) at Sandra Dodd's site

Joyce

 

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-For instance, is a child still "autistic" if they are not compared to other children, if we can respect them as individuals and engage them on their level? As we set ourselves free from conformity, can we also set our children free from comparison?-=-

 

A chid might still be autistic, certainly, but you would have much less reason ever to *say so.*  :-)

[Meredith]

sometimes I wonder if I should seek a "professional" diagnosis to allow me to understand them better, or should I just accept each daughter and learn who she is without the baggage of the diagnosis.

 

To some extent, this is a "know thyself" question - how do you think having a diagnosis would help you and help your relationship with your kids? Can you get the kind of understanding and connection you are looking for without the diagnosis? For instance, if you research autism and sensory processing disorders and OCD and other issues, will reading about how other peoples' perspectives and approaches to problem solving be helpful in your desire to be more understanding and supportive? Especially since diagnoses often fade one into the other, with overlapping issues and needs, it could be more helpful to explore a range of possible connections and take what helps from that, rather than nailing your family down to one diagnosis that only partly fits the bill.

 

As your kids get older, too, they may decide they want to learn more about other people with similar issues. How do other people with tics, for instance, manage those in daily life? Or with, say, chronic anxiety? They may find that having a diagnosis helps them connect with other people and/or find resources - or they may find it gets in the way of relationships.

 

For instance, is a child still "autistic" if they are not compared to other children, if we can respect them as individuals and engage them on their level? As we set ourselves free from conformity, can we also set our children free from comparison?

 

People don't exist in isolation, though, and that's something else to consider. A child at a play group or taking a karate class, or visiting family at a wedding, or going to the grocery store, is in contact with other human beings. It can sometimes be more helpful, in terms of dealing with other people to say "he's autistic". Of course, the diagnosis comes with some baggage! but my own experience with people with significant mental health issues is that they get other kinds of lables, even though they may staunchly resist any kind of lable or diagnosis (and some do). Other people form opinions and make comparisons, and sometimes offering a lable up front can at least set the expectations differently.

[Sandra Ostapowich]

My son has been diagnosed with severe ADHD by a pediatric neuropsychologist last Fall. We've just encountered so many challenges over the years, I wanted to know what was going on - was it something neurological, behavioral, etc.? He does have a prescription for medication, but since we really got into unschooling he doesn't take it most days. I do ask him to take it when we're going to be somewhere during the day that requires an extended period of being (reasonably) quiet and sitting still - like church and Sunday School, etc. I've explained to him what ADHD means and what the medication does. He understands it. He notices a difference in his behavior and the "noise" in his head, and that people treat him differently when he's got the boost from the medication to control himself better.

 

My question is how would things like OT/PT/etc. fit in with RU?

[Alex Polikowsky]

Isn't your son the one who loves to play Roblox for hours? it does not seem like he has a problem concentration or sticking to an activity that he WANTS to do.

It  is very hard for boys to stay quiet and not move around in Sunday School or Church, for some it is impossible.

I really thing the diagnosis of ADHD is  completely not a correct one in many cases.

Its just about expectations. Expecting that some kids can sit quietly for an extended period of time doing and being somewhere they don;t want to be.

Have you read in deep about the side effects and dangers of those drungs ? They are scary.

I know my sister took her son out of school a couple months into 1st grade because they wanted her son drugged or else.

He has no problem concentrating in what he wants to do. It was school and situation where the expectations where like school that was a problem.

Taking school out of the picture cured his ADHD??

Think about it. You son maybe would be better of junping in the trampoline than going to Sunday School and having to take dangerous drugs for it.

Sandra Ostapowich said:

My son has been diagnosed with severe ADHD by a pediatric neuropsychologist last Fall. We've just encountered so many challenges over the years, I wanted to know what was going on - was it something neurological, behavioral, etc.? He does have a prescription for medication, but since we really got into unschooling he doesn't take it most days. I do ask him to take it when we're going to be somewhere during the day that requires an extended period of being (reasonably) quiet and sitting still - like church and Sunday School, etc. I've explained to him what ADHD means and what the medication does. He understands it. He notices a difference in his behavior and the "noise" in his head, and that people treat him differently when he's got the boost from the medication to control himself better.

 

My question is how would things like OT/PT/etc. fit in with RU?

[Sandra Ostapowich]

Yeah, he's the one.

And yes, that's the dilemma I struggle with all the time.

[Meredith]

He notices a difference in his behavior and the "noise" in his head, and that people treat him differently when he's got the boost from the medication to control himself better.

 

He may decides he likes that difference or parts of that difference - he could also decide he doesn't like it at all. That's something that will very likely change over time, too  - in a couple different ways. As he gets older and his body changes, he effects of the drugs will be different. Also as he grows more thoughtful with maturity he may start thinking about the deeper personal implications of mind altering drugs and questioning if he wants to be the mind this particular drug creates for him. If medication is something he sees as a possibly useful tool with strings attached, that's not necessarily a bad thing. The main thing is to keep in mind that He's going to have opinions about what's going on, and those may not line up with yours!

 

 people treat him differently when he's got the boost from the medication to control himself better.

 

Something to consider is how You treat him with and without medication. Are you easier to get along with when he agrees to take the drugs? It's important to look closely at that, because He's going to be noticing those differences and that's going to affect your relationship with him and the degree to which he trusts your judgement.

 

My question is how would things like OT/PT/etc. fit in with RU?

 

There's a lot of reason for unschooling parents to be skeptical about therapies. Some therapists are very pushy and controlling and really believe its important to push kids to move past their boundaries - and that's not necessarily helpful. Add in to that the fact that there's a good bit of "therapy" out there which isn't shown to be one whit more helpful than supporting the child for a few years and letting the child mature a little - speech therapy is a good example of that, along with sensory processing issues and even some physical  issues like binocular focus.

 

It is most important to be skeptical of any claims that Early Intervention is The Answer. That's an idea that's being debunked more and more these days. Sandra's mantra: read a little try a little, wait a little, watch - applies well if you're wondering about intervention, too.

 

Sometimes parents Need outside help, though - from friends or relatives, from doctors and therapists, too. Unschooling doesn't make physiological issues disappear. The skills you learn from deschooling and unschooling, though, can help you navigate those kinds of complex, difficult questions with more personal resources than otherwise. Why does my child "have to" do that? How exactly will it help him live more joyfully Right Now?

[Jodie]

I've pondered this myself as both of our children have "labels". Our daughter has more severe medical issues, so I'll start with her, and yes it's easier in public to just say "she's special needs" than give the laundry list of diagnosis she has. We allowed her to attend a pre-school geared for developmentally disabled children because we thought it might be good for her. Initially it was, then as mentioned before on here, the therapists began pushing her way too hard. Their answer when we brought it up? "kids like these need to have their boundaries pushed to make a break-though" Ummm...no not ok with us! She is still terrified of crayons because they forced her to sit and "hand over handed" a crayon until she cried so much she would vomit. She is six now and has had multiple surgeries and developmentally is around one year old. Doesn't matter to us what her label is we celebrate her every accomplishment no matter how "small" to others they may seem.

Our son is almost 10 and we started out with a more traditional homeschool in "kindergarten" then he wanted to try public school. We told him we thought it was a bad idea but felt it was his choice to make. It was one of the most awful experiences ever! Daily phone calls from the principle, at least once a week picking him up early from school, all because of bad behavior. We took him to a therapist. Diagnosis? ADHD and Cyclothymia (mild bi-polar). We tried every "natural" supplement, diet restriction, meditation we could find out about. We eventually tried rx meds. First kind was not good. The next one actually seemed to help him and he said he liked taking it so he could concentrate better. Needless to say we pulled him from school, and slowly transitioned into unschooling and then to radical unschooling. Well, for the most part anyway. We still have the ups and downs of "is this working/are we doing it right"! LOL He still takes the meds when he wants to. It's his choice, because we feel it has both good and bad benefits.

I guess my point in sharing is that I feel some labels are needed as a matter of life or death. If some of our daughter's diagnosis had not occurred, she wouldn't be alive. On the other hand some are convenience for the mainstream public. We fell more easily into radical unschool with our daughter than we did with our son. I think we "expected" more from him, so his diagnosis helped us, as parents, have more compassion with him. And he likes to say he has special needs (I assume because we see many specialists for his sister). I used to worry a lot about labels but realized that as much as some may want to avoid them, people, in general, use them. "We homeschool", "We are radical unschoolers", etc. Maybe the labels can be used in a positive way to help educate/inspire others!

~Jodie

[michelle N]

It was a label that started our unschooling journey.  After a couple of years of struggling in school and some other concerns I went the psychology route and had my son evaluated.  We got the standard ADHD diagnosis, and honestly if you look at the "symptoms" of ADHD then my son sure has hell has it.  We were also told he had anxiety issues (well guess what was causing him the most anxiety.) Even though I was the one looking for the diagnosis I knew that really I just had a highly visual and active child with one heck of an imagination.  What goes on inside his mind is much more interesting than anything he was learning in school.

In the end I'm still glad I have my son evaluated just in case I was missing something like dyslexia or another issue that might require a different approach to learning. Also, the ADHD label reminds me to have extra patience with my son when his motor is running on high and I'm running on empty. And, for me, the label was the push I needed to embrace unschooling.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-it's easier in public to just say "she's special needs"-=-

-=-how would things like OT/PT/etc. fit in with RU?-=-

 

Speaking English rather than jargon helps every single time, when the questions are about whether one can set labels aside some.   

 

Using jargon and special terminology and abbreviations hurts every single time (unless the questioner WANTS support for keeping labels).

 

-=-it's easier in public to just say "she's special needs"-=-

 

It's better in the absence of school and "special needs programs" or "special needs designations" or "special needs funding," to say "She has special needs."  But y'know what?  Everyone has needs.  Why should hers be special?  :-)  It's very rare, with unschooling that in public anyone would need to say "My child has needs."  If the parent is there with the child, she can see that the child is assisted.

-=-how would things like OT/PT/etc. fit in with RU?-=--=-

In English:  Does therapy conflict with unchooling? 

Some does, and some doesn't.

Much therapy is designed to get a child to grade level, to mainstream him, to modify his behavior so that he won't be horribly taunted and bullied (which rarely works, that last thing, because no matter how suavely he strolls out of the special education building, that's where he was).   Those things aren't necessary with unschooling.

 

Some occupational therapy or some physical therapy is wonderful if a child can't speak, or swallow, or walk or use his arms.  

 

 

[Jodie]

===It's better in the absence of school and "special needs programs" or "special needs designations" or "special needs funding," to say "She has special needs."  But y'know what?  Everyone has needs.  Why should hers be special?  :-)  It's very rare, with unschooling that in public anyone would need to say "My child has needs."  If the parent is there with the child, she can see that the child is assisted.==

 

You are so right Sandra! Come to think of it we haven't had to say that in a while. She just started walking when she was around 5yo but due to surgery set backs she's is def. not a confident "outside the home" walker, so we use her wheelchair most places. So it's obvious to most people that she requires assistance. Places like Wal-mart I can still lift her into the seat of the shopping cart. :) Saying she's special needs happened mostly when she was younger and we would go to buffets for dinner. She doesn't eat solid food (she only drinks pediasure with a certain sippy cup) although occasionally she will take baby food or ice cream, so we'd tell them so they didn't charge for her. We live in a fairly small town with only one buffet locally so it only happened a few times before they remembered us! :)

 

==Using jargon and special terminology and abbreviations hurts every single time (unless the questioner WANTS support for keeping labels).==

 

Again, Sandra, you hit the nail on the head! I can't say how uplifting this forum is! It's so nice to have support w/out judgements! Here is a list of our daughter's diagnosis/ health issues. I actually typed this up and carry it in my purse b/c every time we go to a new Dr. they want the history (as if they don't have it in the data base!), so I just hand this over! :)

 

Surgeries/hospital stays

1. Preemie ( 6 weeks early),

2. Duodenal Atresia (intestinal block) surgery at 2 days old

3. Congenital Heart Defect- repaired with Tetralogy of Fallot (open- heart surgery) at 9 months old

4. TNA (tonsils and adnoids) removed (youngest child dr had done)

5. Tubes in ears

6. Two separate eye muscle surgeries- two on one eye, one on the other.

Will need further surgeries on eyes.

7. Spinal surgery Oct. 2010 had growth rods implanted, subsequent surgeries expected every 6 months to 1 year until the age of approx. 12 years when a fusion surgery is expected.

 

Diagnosis

1. Chromosome 6q deletion (no one else has been found missing the same bands)

2. Autism (secondary)

3. Congenital Heart Defect

4. Scoliosis and Kyphosis

5. Severe MR(mental retardation)

6. Global Delays

7. Extreme Sensory Defensiveness

8. Keratosis Pilaris (skin rash)

9. Does not control body temp. (basically she needs to be in temp range 73-82 only)

10. Extreme Oral issues (she only eats Pediasure from a special sippy cup)

 

[Meredith]

I guess my point in sharing is that I feel some labels are needed as a matter of life or death.

 

I'm not disagreeing with this, but I want to point out that framing too many issues in extreme terms has become a massive cultural problem. Every little thing gets framed as a crisis - which is harmful Both to people with really serious problems and to folks with... hmm, more normal atypicality? Its really a shame that, for instance, a fantastic idea like "the autism spectrum" - which started out as a way to frame autism in terms of degrees of normal human variability - has turned into a "diagnosis" on its own with wayyyyyyy to much urgency attached.

 

On the other hand some are convenience for the mainstream public.

 

And in schools, a lot of lables are attempts to get kids more of what they really need. That doesn't always work very well! But parents end up put in positions where framing every little thing as critical is the only way they know to get even a little bit of help in increasingly ponderous systems of education.

 

That's all kind of aside from unschooling, but I think its important to consider why this pressure exists to lable and medicate kids. One of the points I've made several times to family and friends is "that's not nearly as much of an issue for us because we're home/unschooling; we can afford to wait."