Radically Unschooling "Special Children"

[Janis Newsom]

All our children are very special of course, but I have been unschooling almost 5 years now and I wonder if anyone else is unschooling a child(gasp I am about to use a label)......a child on the autism spectrum. My oldest son has Aspergers syndrome and I am actually glad to have this label because it only benefits him for me to know more about how he works internally. Anyhow, I am looking for other moms who are radically unschooling other children with similar specialness:) I worry sometimes that I should be doing different things with him than my other 5 children because of this label, but I know God has led us down this path and it has only benefitted him to do anything that interests him even if his interests are very limited. He has few interests, but the ones he has are so superb, I sometimes envy how much he can devote himself to something he truly loves and cares about. Its simply amazing! Anyhow I am new to the board and I just want to thank this board for being here, for support, for others seeking this path and for the commonalities we all share. Nice to meet everyone!

Janis

[Slinky]

Sometimes I think it would be soo much easier to homeschool a kid with aspergers as they have such intense and deep interests. Sometimes I think it would be so much easier to homeschool a child who is visibly retarded as then people seem to be happy with anything they do. No wonder those kids are so happy.

No I instead am homeschooling a child with ADHD as a parent with ADHD and it seems like we just can't ever get in sync and people expect her to be a genius. Unfortunately as soon as I acquire whats needed for a wanted interest she is no longer interested so often I feel like I am failing her and wasting a whole lot of money and drowning in the mess of thousands of lost interests.

[Sara]

Money is an issue in my family, so I'm cautious about spending it to satisfy interests that may not last. I try to find free resources. On the other hand, I don't worry about science kits or books or whatever sitting on the shelf available.

Slinky said:

No I instead am homeschooling a child with ADHD as a parent with ADHD and it seems like we just can't ever get in sync and people expect her to be a genius. Unfortunately as soon as I acquire whats needed for a wanted interest she is no longer interested so often I feel like I am failing her and wasting a whole lot of money and drowning in the mess of thousands of lost interests.

[Marilyn Rose]

I just found this website today, and saw this thread. I have a very different situation than the posts I have seen here so far. We are a homeschooling family of nine kids, six of whom still live at home. The three oldest still at home are 15, 17, and 23yo girls who all have some form of Down Syndrome, and other disabilities. We have homeschooled them for several years now. It is a VERY different situation from homeschooling their "typical" brothers, who are 10&11. But I love having them home! My biggest problem is finding social outlets for them (and for me!). We don't fit into the Christian groups, even though we are Christians (long story). We don't fit into the regular activity groups because the girls come with us everywhere, and there is never anything for them to do in these groups. And so far I have not found any families like ours who are homeschooling, with one exception, and somehow we didn't "click". It's lonely out here! But I still feel we are doing ther right thing.

[Meredith]

Unfortunately as soon as I acquire whats needed for a wanted interest she is no longer interested so often I feel like I am failing her and wasting a whole lot of money and drowning in the mess of thousands of lost interests.

What kinds of interests are we talking about? Kids often like to "sample" things - some people have a natural disposition to do a whoooooole lot of "sampling". So rather than looking to fill her interests, maybe there are ways for you to help her do more sampling, more imediately. Having lots of stuff on hand can be helpful with that. So can the computer. If you want to toss out some examples, maybe folks can brainstorm some quick-and-dirty ideas to get you started. Obviously those interests are past for the moment, but it might help get your thoughts moving in a more productive direction.

[Slinky]

Currently with DD14 its been, Sewing, beading, woodburning, a found things art class, knittting, crochet and so on. I will get her everything for the project she wants and asked for without my prompting and it will just sit there unless I tell her to work on it and then she acts like I am punishing her. She seems to have no self motivation. I don't mean motivation to do what I want but motivation to do what she has expressed that she wants. I could see the sampling point if any of the projects actually got done or if more then just one or two got part way done.

Like she wants to do the mobile for her cousin for the holidays and so we got her all the stuff to do it but she does not touch it unless I tell her to do it. At this rate she is not going to get it done let alone all the other projects she claimed to want to do for the holidays.

She has a computer and spends most of her time on teen second life which would have been fine except she says she is bored with it and tells people she does not want to do that or anything like it for a living. This has gotten me into tricky spots with people judging my parenting and ability to homeschool as my justification for letting her play as much SL as she wanted to was it was excellent prep for a career in virtual design, movie making, animation, digital effect and so on.

Now she is watching a lot of tv as well which is also fine but it really bothers me that she expresses and interest, says she wants to do something so I get the stuff for it and then she does not do it unless I tell her to and if I tell her to it makes whatever it was into a punishment and if I just suggest maybe she could work on it then it sucks any interest out of it but if I say nothing it just sits there or worse and more likely they will take whatever it is out of the box and spread its pieces all over to check it out then never put it away loose or break vital pieces and then its just more trash for me to drown in which I resent as they don't clean up after themselves at all, won't let me just throw it away and I can't keep up with it as it is.


I know some of that is good for them but when they do it with just about every project its infuriating as a parent. I mean if all they wanted was to dump stuff on the floor and break it I could buy them things that don't cost nearly as much to do that with. I would not have parents and in laws who kindly pay for things I can't afford harping on me to produce the outcomes of what they paid for.


How am I suppose to connect with my kids when my involvement in anything with them ruins it?

[Meredith]

it will just sit there unless I tell her to work on it and then she acts like I am punishing her

Do you do them with/for her?
There are a lot of projects that Mo wants to do that I end up doing, or doing most of, because she's not as ready as she thought for that project. If I were to say "do it" she'd certainly act like I was punishing her! She's in over her head! This is especially true of handcrafts - they can look so wonderful, but then you try to get your hands to crook and twist the way they need to and its a nightmare. Some kids are okay with making things that look half-baked, but other kids want to be able to create an exact thing, one that looks like the picture, or the image in their minds, perfectly, and become overwhelmed when they discover that's not going to happen the first time.

It has helped, with Mo, for me to do a little of both - help her with specific projects (and by help I mean accept that I will be the one doing the project, and she won't even watch) and also have the kinds of tools and supplies on hand for her to make similar things. Generally I'll discover little experiments with cloth and thread and whatnot here and there. She doesn't want anyone to See her learning, so she does it clandestinely. Other things, she's happy to learn out in the open, but not hand work.

Just last night she handed me a beaded ring she'd made for me. I've never seen her thread a needle! When I've offered, she'd tucked her hands behind her back or left the room. But somehow she learned and created a tiny little project of her own.

[Slinky]

That works ok for DD7 and is what I am doing for her card making business. In fact this was something I was concerned with. I worry that "taking things over" or doing it better then she could will discourage her.

This does not work with DD14 as I don't know how to or can't do many of the projects she wants to. She does not want me to do them for her that and I am drowning in all my own responsibilities and feeling fairly resentful that my entire life, even as a child, has been and seem always will be me doing all the labor while everyone else gets to play and do what they want.

She is 14 and intelligent. If taking her out of school has dumbed her down so much she can't read instructions for a project she asked for and do something as simple as place a bead on a string then taking her out of school is failing her. Yes I have tried sitting down and doing things with her but as I said my involvement seems to ruin everything. I am more then willing to help her figure out pieces of things but at 14 I am not willing to do it all for her and she does not want me to.

[Joyce Fetteroll]

I suspect if you read all this posted by someone else the problem would be clearer but in the midst of it all you can see is how much you're doing and how little she's doing and how she needs to change so you can help her.

** I will get her everything for the project she wants and asked for without my prompting and it will just sit there unless I tell her to work on it and then she acts like I am punishing her. **

For my daughter, projects were less about the project and more about doing something together. Had I told her to do the projects herself, had I hovered over her with the goal of moving her toward the finished project rather than a goal of spending some enjoyable time together, it would definitely feel like punishment!

Also, sometimes the desire to have something is greater than the desire to do the work. That's not a character failing. It's part of who she is right now and something she'll work on or not if the goal feels worth the effort. (I want to learn Japanese but the effort to do so on my own is more than I'm willing to overcome. (And I've bought plenty of stuff to help.) I'd love to have a class or program that would do it all for me! :-)

If you won't learn something to do it with her -- and there were certainly some activities that didn't interest me with Kathryn -- perhaps you can find some adult friends who are crafty and would love to spend some time with her. (Which makes me want to ask does *she* feel you'd love to spend time with her? What would be her answer? I'm suspecting that her answer might be that you'd love to spend time with someone who was more like you want her to be.)

*BUT* the activities that I chose not to do with Kathryn -- I really wasn't very good at drawing Slugbug comics ;-) -- were a *small percentage* of what we did together and that's key. If it were tipped the other way so that most of what she wanted to do I wouldn't do with her, each one would have been a lost opportunity to build a relationship with her.

It's not her responsibility to accommodate herself to what you're willing to do. *If you want to unschool* it's up to you to find ways to move into her world and be comfortable. If you can't find a way to enjoy a lot of what she's interested in, focus on her enjoyment and what she gets out of it.

Sometimes there can be a large mismatch between mothers and kids. A motocross kid and a knitting mom are going to have smaller overlaps in interests than most mothers and kids! But knitting mom can find ways to support him, find ways to enjoy his enjoyment. But she won't be able to support and enjoy him if she wishes her child were different to make it easier on her to help him.

But unschooling does require moms to move outside their comfort zone in order for it to work well. I'm suspect the match between you isn't

** At this rate she is not going to get it done let alone all the other projects she claimed to want to do for the holidays. **

You could set it up and set up a project of your own so you can work together even if you're not working on the same thing. But rather than focusing on getting your own project done, make your responsibility being there for her to help her over the rough spots, jumping in when she needs, backing off when she needs, being okay if she wants to do something else. Put out a platter of snacks. Make hot chocolate. Make the experience about spending quality enjoyable time together rather than getting her to do something.

That's just one idea.

** I am drowning in all my own responsibilities**

Unless *your kids* are your primary responsibility, you'll be a roadblock to unschooling.

If they need more than you're willing to give, it's not their responsibility to need less. It's your responsibility to figure out how to give more. It's your responsibility to figure out how to be there for them.

The early teens can be a rough time. Often *they* don't know what they need. Sometimes the best parents can offer is sympathy and understanding.

** and feeling fairly resentful that my entire life, even as a child, has been and seem always will be me doing all the labor while everyone else gets to play and do what they want.**

Your kids are not responsible for your childhood or any emotional baggage you've brought with you from it.

Oh, I wish I could find the quote. I hope someone remembers. But someone said something to the effect that she inherited a cart load of baggage from her parents but she hoped she wouldn't pass on more than a handbag to her kids.

It's your responsibility to find out how to connect with the unique person she is, not for her to change to make it easier for you to help her. Rather than beginning asking for help with "she won't" and "she can't" and "I won't" and "I can't" begin with the question of how you can connect with her, begin at the beginning which is your inability to figure out what she needs and how to give it to her. Don't focus on where she's broken or failing. Focus on the hurting parts and seek ideas on how to help her heal and the relationship heal.

Have you read:

Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach by Mira Kirshenbaum
http://tinyurl.com/2v56sf

It will be a huge help.

** she says she is bored with it and tells people she does not want to do that or anything like it for a living. **

Interests change. See everything as an exploration and gathering of skills and knowledge and understanding she can draw on rather than as a foundation of a particular career. Everything connects to everything else. Everything can be the foundation of something else. Unschooling can be frustrating in that it isn't a direct path toward a particular destination. She's 14, she *should* still be gathering and exploring and playing.

** Now she is watching a lot of tv as well which is also fine but it really bothers me that she expresses and interest, says she wants to do something so I get the stuff for it and then she does not do it unless I tell her to and if I tell her to it makes whatever it was into a punishment and if I just suggest maybe she could work on it then it sucks any interest out of it but if I say nothing it just sits there or worse and more likely they will take whatever it is out of the box and spread its pieces all over to check it out then never put it away loose or break vital pieces and then its just more trash for me to drown in which I resent as they don't clean up after themselves at all, won't let me just throw it away and I can't keep up with it as it is. **

This is a huge big dump of resentment. You want her to be different than she is and it's tying you up in knots that she she's refusing to cooperate.

Rather than focusing on what she's not doing, focus on her. Go give her a big hug. Spontaneously take her something you know she loves to eat. Sit down with her with a big bowl of popcorn and watch a favorite show with her. It's not her job to move out of the corner she's maneuvered herself into for whatever reason. It's your job to go sit in the corner with her and make it more comfortable. Bring her more pillows. Put some pillows out elsewhere so there are other areas that look comforting. Right now it seems like beyond her corner is a mom resentfully hovering over her for not following through. It would make me want to crawl into a comfy corner too.

** How am I suppose to connect with my kids when my involvement in anything with them ruins it? **

By looking more at your kids and less at the outcome.

** She is 14 and intelligent. If taking her out of school has dumbed her down so much she can't read instructions for a project she asked for and do something as simple as place a bead on a string then taking her out of school is failing her. **

This vision of her is interfering with you helping her. You have a vision of who she needs to be in order to be happy and she's failing that vision. You need to let go of the vision. You have an idea of what will help her but she's not complying. Ask here for better ways to connect with *her* world rather than focusing on how she could do better at connecting to your world and your vision of who she needs to be.

** Yes I have tried sitting down and doing things with her but as I said my involvement seems to ruin everything. I am more then willing to help her figure out pieces of things but at 14 I am not willing to do it all for her and she does not want me to. **

If my husband sat down with me with the intent of moving me forward on some project, with the attitude you've expressed above, it would feel like a huge smothering resentment wrapped around me. It would ruin the occasion for me too.

Don't focus on the project. *Be* with her. Have a conversation with her about her favorite TV shows. Spend time with her. Don't try to fix her. Sympathize with her, be understanding. Be there for her.

[Slinky]

Your right I would probably have better luck looking in from the outside. I will probably fully regret posting this and I apologize for having hijacked the thread.

I have been at this for a few years and I just can't seem to get it right. I often worry that having PTSD and a dissociative disorder is getting in the way and I may never get it right in which case I don't know what to do now. I don't know that I have ever really connected with anyone and am not sure I ever will and it is not from lack of trying. I co-slept, I breast fed for 2+ years, I carried the baby in a sling, and yet it just seemed to be going through the motions as I can't seem to connect.

I have the teenage liberation handbook on hold and maybe that will help us both. I will look into the link you posted as well. There was a resent article about unschooling in the parent magizine I was reading and I wish my family could be like those. I wish they could be like many of the families I see on here.

Yes I have a LOT of resentment. I have a royally messed up childhood like a lot of people. The aspects I hated, loathed and resented from it have carried on through adulthood and become the main factors of my life. I can't seem to get away from being the unappreciated slave labor doing all the chores while everyone else gets to do what they want. I know this resentment is not helping I tried for many years to learn not to hate and resent being the unappreciated slave labor without much luck. Probably because I have never been very good at it most likely do to loathing and resenting it as a child.

The more I read about unschooling and peaceful partnerships the more I wish someone else was me and I got to be one of the one who gets to do whatever they want and would pick up my slack and be understanding instead of being the only person who has to pick up everyone elses slack and do all the things no one wants to so they can do nothing but what they want to.

I have spent a lot of years asking for help and trying to come up with ways to get the basic needs met so I could focus on my kids only to fail. I have looked into maids and work exchanges and mothers helpers with no luck. Obviously once again the problem is me. The problem is always me and has always been me since I was a wee little child.

I don't see how doing something she asks such as helping her figure out the next step in what she is doing when she asks is being smothering and resentful. If doing what they ask is wrong then wtf am I suppose to do?

You know I am just really upset right now and I know your trying to help but I have spent my whole life changing to try and be good enough for others and I never seem to be good enough. I have always been the problem and if I was just a different person.... Unfortunately I have never been able to figure out how to be the right different person. I know this is not my children's fault. If only I wasn't me and wasn't severely depressed my whole life then it would not matter how dysfunctional we were we could make it work.

[Meredith]

You know I am just really upset right now and I know your trying to help but I have spent my whole life changing to try and be good enough for others and I never seem to be good enough.

You are good enough! That's not always the same as knowing how to choose and implement an effective strategy, though. Those are different things. Most of the strategies that worked with my stepson weren't much use with my dd - and the strategies that worked for Ray at 6 don't work now that he's 16. So I'm continually reassessing and updating my strategies, changing my approaches, finding different ways to reach out, to communicate. I'm not saying that to make you feel inadequate, but to let you know that someone with a good sense of self esteem, like me, is still going to fumble around now and then, saying "wtf? why isn't what I'm doing working?" The fumbling around part isn't a failing, its part of the process of growing and learning.

I apologize for having hijacked the thread.

Threads don't really "belong" to anyone - lots of tangents on this forum! But in a sense, this really is part of the same topic, only from the angle of how having bigger, more complex needs as a parent can be challenging to unschooling. You Do have bigger challenges than many other unschoolers. That's something to know, maybe something to reassure you. If unschooling allows you to pass less of your own baggage on to your kids, fantastic! But if it doesn't, if its an ongoing source of resentment for you, then maybe its not such a good fit for your family. Only you/your family can decide that.

I don't know that I have ever really connected with anyone and am not sure I ever will and it is not from lack of trying. I co-slept, I breast fed for 2+ years, I carried the baby in a sling, and yet it just seemed to be going through the motions as I can't seem to connect.

It may be that you envision "connection" as something it isn't. Some people find physical contact helps them feel connected, it doesn't me. It can set me up to feel defensive and even more isolated. Some people find talking helps them feel connected. Again, that isn't always the case with me. Too much talk can leave me feeling oppressed. I feel most conncted to those with whom I've shared projects, or even worked on separate projects side by side. That was a good suggestion of Joyce's, one to try if you haven't - doing a project along side your dd and see how she responds.

If you honestly think you can't really connect with your kids, then please find them adults with whom they can find a two-way sense of connection. Find them mentors or teachers with whom they can bond and you'll have done them an enormous favor! Its a win-win favor, too, because it frees you up more, which may help you deal with some of your own issues with resentment.

Unschooling isn't about suffering along, trying to do what's right. If there's no joy in it at all, only resentment, then stop. Do something else, anything, school, even boarding school would be better than kids stuck at home with a mom eaten away by resentment.

Stop being a slave. Stop it right now. Slavery is not compatible with unschooling. If you can't change the way you view your relationship to your kids, change something else. Put your kids in a position where they have chances to meet other adults, people who can connect with them and fill them up emotionally. Get them into clubs and classes, even school. Do it so they have a chance to be more emotionally healthy and so you're not the slave any more. You get to have a life.

[Slinky]

Thank you so much. I can't really express how grateful I am for your response.

I think I am just having a really bad day as this is a VERY difficult month for me as some major abuse started and Ironically ended several years later in this month and it brings out all my feelings of inadequacy and all my fears.

I took her out of school because it was not emotionally healthy for her and she was miserable but scored really high on everything but timed math.

I have been working to find other people for her to connect with. We just yesterday went down to the 4 h office and the local club we were interested in just contacted me back and they have an opening and we found the local homeschool group by fluke when we went to renew her card in this district.

[Monica Manzano]

Janis, I'm using facebook way too much, having so much fun. I've neglected this group. Only 8 months ago we learned that our eldest has Asperger's syndrome. Laurence is age 15. I'm seeing this as an opportunity to unschool myself in many things Asperger's or Autism.
We are supposed to go out tonight, so I'm in a rush. I promise to come back and partake in this particular theme.
I decided against any particular 'intervention'. Mainly since I'm friends with some Asperger adult women, one in particular is or was a homeschooler, possibly unschooler. I have another friend, who is local and Christian, who has an Asperger child. The 1st friend, stated about aba or therapy or groups, only if the child requests or wants. Specifically we were talking about Asperger groups. But also any local hs groups activities, I said to her that both boys would rather stay home. Then my other friend, stating about her own experience, 'socialization' begins and is at home. I took their words to heart, my 2nd friends knows me from a church I was working at. So we know each other quite well.

I'm most definitely starting to believe that I'm blessed. I'll come back and post a paper on culture and autism. The views from different cultures and it's relevance to diagnosis and help.

If you love unschooling as much as I do, you will come into reading, that will lead you to more reading.

But yesterday we had an exciting thing, probably so minimal to other mom's, so overlooked most days. Idk dh and I were in the kitchen, cooking and moving, and discussing some non-sense. Laurence, my 15yo, states "I will wait my turn". He was anxious to tell us something. One of his 'issues' here at home is not taking turns talking, just blurting and or talking over us. Do you know what an amazing thing it is that he announce and self correct! Then he waited. And we gave him his turn.

As for interests, this too shall come. Plus, as I'm learning Asperger's are so different. Applying strict definitions from manuals and such, doesn't apply. But I feel most strongly that I am Asperger-like, and I am focusing more on 'how am I Asperger?' or anxious? I feel I may have modeled some things, but I will come back to this. MM