Radically Unschooling "Special Children"

[Janis Newsom]

All our children are very special of course, but I have been unschooling almost 5 years now and I wonder if anyone else is unschooling a child(gasp I am about to use a label)......a child on the autism spectrum. My oldest son has Aspergers syndrome and I am actually glad to have this label because it only benefits him for me to know more about how he works internally. Anyhow, I am looking for other moms who are radically unschooling other children with similar specialness:) I worry sometimes that I should be doing different things with him than my other 5 children because of this label, but I know God has led us down this path and it has only benefitted him to do anything that interests him even if his interests are very limited. He has few interests, but the ones he has are so superb, I sometimes envy how much he can devote himself to something he truly loves and cares about. Its simply amazing! Anyhow I am new to the board and I just want to thank this board for being here, for support, for others seeking this path and for the commonalities we all share. Nice to meet everyone!

Janis

[Valerie]

**Shit happens, and change is always around the bend - sometimes very unexpectedly.

And so, often, when we try to control, or we try to maintain some sort of status quo amidst the turbulence, we are fighting against the pulse of the universe. And we will suffer for it, especially within our physical, mental and/or spiritual being. Most of the great physicians of the classic traditions of medicine – Chinese, Ayurvedic, Hippocratic, Arabic, Shamanic – have recognized that most illnesses have a spiritual, or a psychospiritual nature. They understood that people get themselves in a bind when they live a life that goes against the infinite aspects of our lives, and the universe. And they devised treatments that try to reestablish that proper flow – energy work, herbal decoctions, psychospiritual growth processes, and so on.

Ultimately, our lives follow a trajectory: we go from living a life totally caught up in the physical; to becoming mindful and aware of Mind; to finally becoming Mind itself. That last part may sound a little fanciful, and partly something out of 2001: A Space Odyssey. The challenge is, how can we bring this understanding into the everyday, and make it an integral part of our lives? **

http://www.quantumintegralcenter.com/articles.cfm?mode=display&...


I suspect we are part of a physical, mental, emotional and spiritual feedback loop. When we replay the repeated emotional experience we keep the feedback loop going.

http://www.shinzen.org/Retreat%20Reading/5%20Ways%20To%20Know%20You...


**No I instead am homeschooling a child with ADHD as a parent with ADHD and it seems like we just can't ever get in sync and people expect her to be a genius.**

We all have idiosyncrasies and we can still come together. You share a common thread. Are your symptoms so different from hers? Do you see yourself in her? When you find peace within you will see more of it around you.

**She has a computer and spends most of her time on teen second life which would have been fine except she says she is bored with it and tells people she does not want to do that or anything like it for a living.**

My family plays wow. One night my husband asked a character what she was doing up so late. She mentioned how she was playing with her kids (much like my husband). "Oh, how old are your kids", he asked. She replied,"My oldest is 48"....in turn dispelling many age old illusions.

Anyway...I don't think it's easy to raise any kid. But I suspect it can be, if we let it.

[Joyce Fetteroll]

** it just seemed to be going through the motions as I can't seem to connect. **

Someone who is going through the motions because they know the motions are important is in a better space than someone who is going through the motions because they're supposed to, if you see what I mean. Honest effort will flavor the motions differently than pretense.

** There was a resent article about unschooling in the parent magizine I was reading and I wish my family could be like those. I wish they could be like many of the families I see on here. **

What you see are the best moments. No family is exactly like you see in stories all the time. Every once in a while I mention Kat took some math classes starting at 14 which I'm sure makes some mothers think how much easier it would be if their kids did that! But for Kat the classes were a blip in her life. More of her life was balancing what seemed simultaneous needs to be out doing "something fun" (that she couldn't quite pinpoint what she meant and changed as she grew) and being home for the opportunity to draw or write (but sometimes creativity can't be scheduled!) From the feedback she's given me I was more successful than it felt to me.

While it's good to talk about the struggles so people don't think we're perfect! but frankly they aren't inspiring to write. ;-) I'd rather go clean a toilet than write about days that didn't go so great. But writing something positive and helpful is inspiring and lets me avoid cleaning the toilet! :-)

** The aspects I hated, loathed and resented from it have carried on through adulthood and become the main factors of my life. **

The past unfortunately doesn't "just" go away. It takes determination, work and sometimes outside help to stop turning around when it wants your attention to drag you back.

The past and the thought habits it creates is sort of like a cart that's created deep ruts. Our thoughts will naturally fall into the ruts and make them deeper. It takes effort to pull up out of the ruts. Each time you pull out the ruts aren't quite so deep -- but they're still there! Each time you fall back in, they get deeper. It takes a lot of pulling out, a lot of not falling in, until the new paths feel more natural to follow. The ruts will always be there to some extent. They'll feel comfortable in their familiarity even if they cause pain. But the more you avoid them, the more you imbue the new paths with positive thoughts, facing the good parts, the easier it will be to avoid the ruts.

** I know this resentment is not helping I tried for many years to learn not to hate and resent being the unappreciated slave labor without much luck **

How could anyone not resent being unappreciated slave labor!

The pathway out is in working at a new vision of what you do. Making choices for different reasons than because you "have to."

When I cleaned my toilet because I had to, I resented it. I resented that I had to be the one to do it. I didn't do it very often because I was fighting against "have to." And the toilet got pretty dirty!

When it struck me that I didn't *have to* clean the toilet (no police would arrest me) -- And I was already doing a pretty good job of not doing it! ;-) -- that I *could* choose to never ever clean it again, it helped me shift my attitude. I realized I could have a clean toilet anytime *I* wanted it clean. And that mental shift helped me clean it more often. The goal was no longer to do it because I had to but to do it when I felt like it would be nice to have a clean toilet.

This mental shift is a hard one because you're put effort in moving from work with resentment to work with a different attitude. The tasks don't evaporate, but the effort is worth it. The tasks feel not nearly as burdensome when you can't find ways to not carry the resentment around with you.

Again, it's not something you achieve by just shoving down the feeling of resentment. It takes effort to find ways to set it down. It *also* takes time to find ways to fill your own bucket so that it doesn't feel like the world is draining what you don't have enough to give.

There's lots of help here:

http://sandradodd.com/haveto

Read there. Read the links.

It helps to focus on the reasons why *you* want something. It's much easier to cook a meal when you focus on presenting a gift that nourishes body and spirit than because you "have to" feed them.

** the more I wish someone else was me and I got to be one of the one who gets to do whatever they want and would pick up my slack and be understanding instead of being the only person who has to pick up everyone elses slack and do all the things no one wants to so they can do nothing but what they want to. **

This can also be a mental shift. Each time you give to your child, you can be giving to the child you were that didn't get that. See yourself in them and give yourself the gift of what you would have wanted.

** Obviously once again the problem is me. The problem is always me and has always been me since I was a wee little child. **

I think school reinforces the idea that there's one right solution to each problem that fixes the whole thing and our goal is to find it.

Life isn't like that. Each problem has multiple solutions. Often a solution will only solve a piece of the problem. All solutions will have their good parts and their bad parts. Sometimes the bad parts will be worse than the original problem so it's best to drop those! ;-) Sometimes the bad parts will be easier to work around.

** I don't see how doing something she asks such as helping her figure out the next step in what she is doing when she asks is being smothering and resentful. If doing what they ask is wrong then wtf am I suppose to do? **

I suspect that's blown out of proportion. She isn't *always* just asking for help with the next step. When she is, then, of course, help her. But when she's asking for something else -- like company while she works on a project, or sympathy that something isn't as easy as she wished it were -- then pointing out the next step will be irritating to her.

** I have spent my whole life changing to try and be good enough for others and I never seem to be good enough. **

Well, yeah, if we change ourselves to meet other people's goals that's bound to build resentment!

I can see how what we're saying sounds like change yourself to make your daughter's life better. But that's not it! You've come here asking for help so *your* goal must be to help your daughter. So what you're trying to do is change so you're not getting in the way of *your* goal.

If your goal is to walk by her side to help her explore the world -- for instance -- you'd want to do that without tripping and falling into her. But if your shoes were untied and she got angry that you kept tripping into her, if you focused on her anger as the reason to tie your shoes, it would be hard to do it without resentment. But if you focused on your goal, what *you* were trying to achieve -- to walk by her side without tripping -- then tying your laces would be for you.

In some ways that's general advice for everyone, but in some ways it isn't! Conventional parenting gets people into the mindset of imposing goals we think are good for them on our kids -- preparing them to go to college to get a secure job, for instance. And it can be hard for parents to see why kids resent that. If someone is here in the unschooling forum, I assume their goal is joyful living and better relationships, that's a goal the kids want too even if they can't articulate it :-) So in that case focusing on your goal can also be focusing on helping them. It's a bonus deal :-)

** If only I wasn't me and wasn't severely depressed my whole life then it would not matter how dysfunctional we were we could make it work. **

Depression is a bigger deal than a thread can handle. The beginnings of depression might be a good thread to begin, with strategies people have come up with to help avoid the slide down into the deeper pits, especially with winter coming on.

But at some point depression is a bigger deal than someone can handle on their own and therapy and medication can be an enormous help. (This isn't the place to detail what you've done and what doesn't work, though. Real solutions to any problem often involve lots of pieces that make parts of it better. Unfortunately western medicine -- like school! -- tends to focus on one shot solutions to the symptoms and depression especially is way more complex than that.)

[Monica Manzano]

I promised to come back, and I'm here. I want to spend more time reading the words of wisdom myself. But I must add, for myself, the way I feel some days--overwhelmed. In my head I'm juggling so much new knowledge. I fear my 44yo brain can't take the strain.
So what I do is let it go. What I do is to blog ideas I get stuck in, and attempt to stay 'in the moment'.
What I've attempted to learn in the last 8 months for myself is to use more expressive language. To describe my feelings. In the previous posts I see some common themes.

I can't say if I live joyfully. But many aspects of my life I just fall into. I certainly don't plan my days, weeks, and years. One year I was a playground monitor, the next a pet-food sales rep. while I was an unschool mom. Change happens, I got a serious case of pleurisy, and life made choices for me. I had to quit those jobs.

I had an eye-opening scarry event, which has led me to another form of thinking. Ack, same theme as Valerie and Joyce. Just my own story.

Incidentally, I love this movie Australia. I'm currently inspired to write my own story. Something the little boy in the movie states several times...all you have is your story...and more. I love when he says "I will sing you to me".

The way I see it 'Unschooling' is an off the beaten path, or a pioneer path. The Asperger's syndrome just takes me a little more into the forest. I'm NOT scared. I'm going to forge ahead.
mm

[Liv Ireland]

Slinky, I have been so touched by your posts. I feel like I spent too much of my life crushed by burdens assigned to me from others ... not that I've fully extricated myself or anything, just can see it a little differently now. If I may recommend a mentor and mentoring community that has helped me so much in my thinking on the subject of responsibility ...

http://www.enjoyparenting.com/daily-groove/inner-freedom

He's got a lot to read on the website, and I've found it really inspiring. I'm sorry if I'm assuming too much. I just know what it's like to feel like you're wandering around in the dark ...

[JennyStar]

She has a computer and spends most of her time on teen second life which would have been fine except she says she is bored with it and tells people she does not want to do that or anything like it for a living. This has gotten me into tricky spots with people judging my parenting and ability to homeschool as my justification for letting her play as much SL as she wanted to was it was excellent prep for a career in virtual design, movie making, animation, digital effect and so on.

This would be a big deal clue as to what not to do!! Don't assume a future for your children because of a current interest. Let one thing lead to another and build on connections. Lots of kids try on careers when they are young and dump it for another to try on for size. Trust that when the time comes for your kids to get jobs or careers that they will do what they need to do to have the jobs or careers that they want or need at that time.

Now she is watching a lot of tv as well which is also fine but it really bothers me that she expresses and interest, says she wants to do something so I get the stuff for it and then she does not do it unless I tell her to and if I tell her to it makes whatever it was into a punishment and if I just suggest maybe she could work on it then it sucks any interest out of it but if I say nothing it just sits there or worse and more likely they will take whatever it is out of the box and spread its pieces all over to check it out then never put it away loose or break vital pieces and then its just more trash...

Stop doing that then. Give your kids an allowance and let them purchase and do what they want with their purchases. When kids spend their own money on things, first, they will be way more selective about what they purchase, and second, they own it free and clear of mom and will do with it what they will.

I will also say this:
Without a doubt, kids will do what they want to do, they will do what they are motivated to do. Period, end of story. If they aren't motivated to do a project, even if it was a very appealing project at the get go, they aren't going to do it and forcing it, isn't going to make in more appealing or make anyone more motivated to do said project.

You are spinning your wheels here. Relax and enjoy the ride. Don't force or nag, encourage and enjoy life. Do your own projects, invite others to join if they seem interested. You will know when your kids want to do something, because they WILL do it. It WILL happen, unless you keep expecting it and trying to force it. Eventually they will be so clear that there is no way to stop them from doing what they want to do. You can be a happy part of that jumping off point, or you can be the yucky thing they are jumping away from.

[Ginnamom]

I have 3 children Oldest is 12 he has a dx of Asperger's and Tourrettes, my 10 yo Girl has a dx of Sensory Intergration and "mood Disorder" But I seriously think she is spectrumy as well. My lil one 7 prolly has ADHD. It is a Challenge every day. We have tried Scedules routines etc. I have found though that Unschooling helps to Free up the "have to" of school. Now we have some limits on this like NO TV in the day during certian time and before chores. We make art projects do science project go on LOTS of field trips etc. I'm still trying to figure this out one day at a time.

[Starr Sheppard-Decker]

Joyce, I just wanted to thank you for all the time, energy and care you put into all of your replies on this topic. Your compassion and commitment are extremely evident. Thanks for being a great model of the flexibility and awareness needed to maneuver this choice.

[Slinky]

This would be a big deal clue as to what not to do!! Don't assume a future for your children because of a current interest. Let one thing lead to another and build on connections. Lots of kids try on careers when they are young and dump it for another to try on for size. Trust that when the time comes for your kids to get jobs or careers that they will do what they need to do to have the jobs or careers that they want or need at that time.


I was not assuming anything for her, I don't really care if that is what she ends up doing or not but I do answer to people who do have the power to remove my children from me and I do have to have reasons for why I allow my children to do what they do and why I do not force them to do other things most people force their children to do. It is hard to relax when your constantly being judged by people who can take your kids away if your not meeting expectations. I realize this is not her issue or her baggage but it very much will affect her when she finally convinces them I am not properly doing my job and they yank her from me and shove her back into the system.

Not to mention the slap in the face since she had expressed to me interest in such things as a career so her evaluation was the first I heard about it not being an interest. I was really trying to work with her to make her choices valid to the people judging us only to have her make me out as a lier invalidating her choices as viable. This is an example of why I often feel its my family against me. Even when I do what they say they want i am not doing what they want.

If what she spends most her time on is not what she wants to be doing and what she says she wants to be doing is not what she wants because she never does it then how on earth am I suppose to help her do what she wants?

I am working on getting her set up with an allowance. The methods we have used in the past for allowance have not worked out but she is old enough for a bank account with direct deposit and a debit card attached so hopefully that will help. But then what? Do I just quite buying stuff for her and make her use her allowance?

I am so tired of doing my best to be the happy jumping off point only to always be the yucky jumping away from point. I am tired of doing what they want and what they ask only to be treated like I am not doing what they want when they ask.

I don't know how to have time for me and my projects while at the same time being there for my children every min and being the only one willing to do housework, doing all the projects they want done but wont actually do themselves and all the other daily grind things that need to be done. That and I can't even watch a television program without being interrupted every 5 mins or less how could I possibly do something that required any amount of time or focus?

[JennyStar]

I was not assuming anything for her, I don't really care if that is what she ends up doing or not but I do answer to people who do have the power to remove my children from me and I do have to have reasons for why I allow my children to do what they do and why I do not force them to do other things most people force their children to do.

You could use the same reason everyone else does, whether it's true or not, your kids are doing xyz because they are learning abc from it. Just because a school kid takes an algebra class and passes, doesn't mean they know how to "do" algebra, it only means that they were able to plug in enough right answers to pass the class. Obviously, some kids really do learn algebra from a class, but certainly not all of them.

It is hard to relax when your constantly being judged by people who can take your kids away if your not meeting expectations. I realize this is not her issue or her baggage but it very much will affect her when she finally convinces them I am not properly doing my job and they yank her from me and shove her back into the system.

You're in WA, you should hook up with some other unschoolers in your state to see how they go about this. From what I hear, WA has really easy laws to comply with. That way, you don't need to be stressed about this.

Not to mention the slap in the face since she had expressed to me interest in such things as a career so her evaluation was the first I heard about it not being an interest. I was really trying to work with her to make her choices valid to the people judging us only to have her make me out as a lier invalidating her choices as viable.

Looking at what a young teen does for their education, doesn't necessarily lead to a jump in what career path they are on. This may be the wrong angle to go with how you describe and validate and put together a porfolio for an evaluator. Part of what makes unschooling work, is how the parents view learning. If a parent can SEE the learning in everything, then it can be, if needed, put down in educational wording.

If what she spends most her time on is not what she wants to be doing and what she says she wants to be doing is not what she wants because she never does it then how on earth am I suppose to help her do what she wants?

Take a really good hard look at what she IS doing, then expand from there. Get the expansion pack for her game, or find similar games, or find what it is she likes about what she does. Is it the social stuff? Go people watching, make it fun, no expectations. Part of the trap you've set for yourself is that you are expecting certain outcomes from actions that aren't meeting the expectations.

I am working on getting her set up with an allowance. The methods we have used in the past for allowance have not worked out but she is old enough for a bank account with direct deposit and a debit card attached so hopefully that will help. But then what? Do I just quite buying stuff for her and make her use her allowance?

There isn't a hard and fast rule about how families should spend their money. If you think this will work for her, then do it and make sure you give her enough where she can buy things she needs.

I am so tired of doing my best to be the happy jumping off point only to always be the yucky jumping away from point. I am tired of doing what they want and what they ask only to be treated like I am not doing what they want when they ask.

I've felt this way, until I realized that what I was doing was what I "thought" they wanted, not actually what they really wanted. Sometimes what was wanted seemed impossible, so I'd go for the tangible alternative that I "thought" would fit the ticket. It rarely did. It was far better to examine the seemingly impossible and take baby steps toward that. It feels like they don't want it because they probably don't.

I don't know how to have time for me and my projects while at the same time being there for my children every min and being the only one willing to do housework, doing all the projects they want done but wont actually do themselves and all the other daily grind things that need to be done.

First, you've got to stop seeing it as black and white, it's not an either/or. You aren't there for your children every minute, nor are you gone all the time. Housework happens in the course of life, it shouldn't be the focus for you or your kids. You could choose not to do housework. So, every time you do, you are making a choice to do it. Your kids seem to get that. They see that they can choose not to do projects. There's a big thing you can learn from your kids.

That and I can't even watch a television program without being interrupted every 5 mins or less how could I possibly do something that required any amount of time or focus?

Then don't watch tv programs that you want to watch until your kids are asleep or otherwise completely occupied, or watch things that they like watching and watch things together. Somehow, things have stopped being cohesive for your family. I'm just reading into things. Find a way to be cohesive and calm.

[Charissa Vaunderbroad]

Slinky, Gal just give yourself some slack. Take time to take care of yourself, whatever you love to do if it is to watch tv then make a comfy spot where you can do that and just defrag so to speak. It's ok to do that.

http://sandradodd.com/haveto

I saw this was mentioned earlier but I must agree, I read through this last year around this time and it was like Aha! I decided to be sincere and choose what I wanted in life, I was so frazzled playing a role that I really didn't enjoy my life as much as I could. I wrote a post about "having To go to my unfun relative's house for Thanksgiving and Sandra responded with Do you have to? with this link, I read through it and realized she was right. It has been a year. In that time I have learned to treat myself better.

I started asking myself, what do I want? at first it was "I want so and so to do this or that", I thought my happiness hinged on others too much.
Now it is "Roller skating, who wants to go with?" or "video games, anyone for two player"

I'm not saying that I don't attend to the needs of other people in my life I do but now it is a choice and once I had the choice I was happy to let my family have their freedom.

We all take turns cleaning what we want to and when entropy takes over I quote Roseanne "Sorry about the mess but we LIVE here."

I am in Washington and unschool if you ever need links to assessors, lawyers,or other Washington organizations just message me.

My son loves to play video games and I was fearful that he wasn't learning enough other things, but once I relaxed and quit asking him to quantify his experience for me he started playing a wider range of games and was more willing to walk away from it.

Do you want to give her an allowance to meet her needs or because she wants one? I used to use allowance as an award when Phoenix was "good" and he rejected it, I realized I was using it to control and now I just buy him the things he needs, if we ever did do allowance again I would make sure that it was unconditional, not a manipulation.

(sorry I didn't quote what I am referring to but I haven't learned how to do that yet)

[Monica Manzano]

I'm still being very choosey in responses, but Sara said "My husband and I learned better how to understand our "special" child, but once the awareness was there, we moved on with our life." I know our 'label' is new, and my concern is meeting any potential needs for my Laurence, age 15. I'm simultaneously attempting to stay in touch with Asperger's literature/Autism news ang groups as well as just allow him to unschool. You could say I'm unschooling the Asperger's literature for the past 8 months. But at some point, once I have sort of plan/unplan for future needs ie 'how to do college with a couple of differences', I'm going to let go of this theme and switch back to something else.
It's my issue letting go of a 'problem'. But in actuality, it's not a problem for Laurence in the academic area at all. After seeing the psychologist he firmly believes he has 'special powers'. This may be so true. It's the social skills that are sometimes very different.

As for our experiences the last say 4 months attempting to join the Asperger's group. Which didn't exactly pan out the 1st try, I feel we should focus or think of both children in the adult sense. What would an adult do if they wanted more socials? Simple, find people with similar 'interests'. Hereabouts, I don't believe there are any 'unschoolers', I've researched this. Plus the high schoolers have thinned out for they've all graduated or something to that effect.
What we do is take both children to 'family' interests say shooting pool for instance.

This may not connect with what others have written, and I am just interjecting a couple of ideas. Eventually I will also attempt to write our parenting style and or why we are radical unschoolers. Another theme, is finding interests. I would have to think back in time. But I have found that listening to the children will reveal interests.
The time and place that I have had the most revealing dialogues were car trips. Short car rides to here there and everywhere gave me a chance to really dig. Whenever I read that some item purchased never got used, I say I remember all those 'educational cd-roms', or books I bought which I felt we needed.
I'd help more in my own way if I could, but some of the best or exciting activities were with cardboard boxes. I've found lately, if I want to purchase a book, I let Laurence or Tomas chose. I purchase books then for myself. Perhaps since they are older, or this is just how it comes about.
Some day I will write something called 'substitutes'. I need to think on it. If we couldn't afford some activity or some experience I've substituted. One short ex. I played piano at one time, we have a keyboard. I purhcased a few books on how to play piano, but they were neglected for almost 5-6 years. All of a sudden I noted they were out. But I also noted both children have the ability to listen to a youtube and replicate it on the keyboard.

I'm suggesting, that if something is not affordable invent a new or different manner to enjoy it. For me inventing a new or different experience is more than half the fun. It's actually more rewarding than just paying someone for a class or what not. mm

[Merhia Wiese]

After reading all the wonder posts here I don't really have anything more to add except this link. It really helped me to understand my daughter(s) myself and my husband. I can also offer my support and complete understanding to you. You are not alone...
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/anneo/Highly_Sensitive_Shine.htm