"Self regulating"

[Alane]

Give me your definitions, please.

In my mind, it's pretty self-explanatory: Regulating for oneself--individuals deciding what is "enough" for themselves.

Yet, I repeatedly see people write things like, "My son won't self-regulate." or "I have one child who self-regulates and one who does not." (Not on this site.)

Is this even possible? How can one fail to self-regulate?

What I think these people mean is that the child isn't turning the tv off (or whatever the issue is) when the parent thinks they should. "Self regulate" seems to be code for "stopping themselves without being told within the framework that the parent feels the child should stop."

When YOU say, "self-regulate" what do you mean by it?

[Sandra Dodd]

I don't say it, because "regulation" (imposed or self-imposed) is still about rules, and not about thoughtful-in-the-moment choices!

Here's what Joyce Fetteroll and Pam Sorooshian wrote about it once:

http://sandradodd.com/self-regulation

[Alane]

Thanks for that. Interesting. This: "...self-regulate to mean stopping when they feel satiated..." is exactly the way I think of the phrase. Which explains the conflict.

[LR Lee]

Ooh, a page on Sandra's website I hadn't read yet! Thanks!

Alane, to respond to your question, I had been thinking of 'self-regulate' as meaning something along the lines of 'finding one's own regular/normal level for something.' So it wouldn't apply to any particular moment but an overall personal equilibrium--when allowed to go to bed and wake up when she feels like it, someone's sleep habits will self-regulate.

But after reading what Joyce and Pam have to say I looked up the definition and 'self-regulate' does mean 'self-rule,' not a concept I like or find valuable. Then again, regulate and regular share a root so I'm probably splitting hairs here and missing the role of power/control in 'regular'

Sandra Dodd said:

I don't say it, because "regulation" (imposed or self-imposed) is still about rules, and not about thoughtful-in-the-moment choices!

Here's what Joyce Fetteroll and Pam Sorooshian wrote about it once:

http://sandradodd.com/self-regulation

[Bonnie]

"What I think these people mean is that the child isn't turning the tv off (or whatever the issue is) when the parent thinks they should."

That's exactly what it means, and that's why it's a phrase that's not terribly useful for unschoolers. They're thinking "okay, I want my kid to only watch an hour of TV a day, but he's watching five hours - when is he going to reduce it to one?" They're assuming the kid isn't getting anything important out of TV (or whatever the activity is that they're doing "too much" of) and it's just a "leisure" activity. Separating leisure from learning is a sign that the parent still has a big attitude shift to make before they'll really be unschooling.

[Sandra Dodd]

Maybe there's another useful word for this, then:

-=-I had been thinking of 'self-regulate' as meaning something along the lines of 'finding one's own regular/normal level for something.' So it wouldn't apply to any particular moment but an overall personal equilibrium--when allowed to go to bed and wake up when she feels like it, someone's sleep habits will self-regulate.-=-

Maybe "reach equilibrium" or "naturalize" (!?) or something.

Because my friends didn't have bedtimes as babies, they didn't ever have the urge to celebrate staying up late or try to stay up until dawn. When kids do have restrictions to overcome, they do eventually (ideally) get "regular." Something that had been taken away from them can be regained. Maybe there's a word right here that I'm just missing...

It happens with food, for sure, that at first kids who used to live with measures and rules will kinda go crazy, but eventually they just eat what they actually want when they're hungry.

Balance. Maybe it's "balance." :-)

http://sandradodd.com/balance

[Alane]

"Balanced" can run into the same problem though, if the parents believe that THEIR idea of balance for the child holds more weight than the child's.

Words matter, certainly, but if the underlying ideas aren't clear, the words can be twisted. A child can find their own balance, but it won't be HERS if it's limited by parental ideas of what a good balance is.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-Words matter, certainly, but if the underlying ideas aren't clear, the words can be twisted.-=-

It's likely that "the underlying ideas" will be created of words and concepts involving terms.
If the underlying ideas are created using words that have other baggage, the ideas won't be clear in the first place.

"Regulation" has to do with rules and measurements and what is "regular," repeating, prescribed, expected.

"Balance" is natural. A rock can balance. A rock can't regulate.

If a person balances on a teeter board or a beam or sitting on a wall, it involves the body, and wordless skills. The idea of balance hardly enters into it. A kid riding a bike or skateboarding is dealing with balance but doesn't even need to know the word for it to be happening. They don't need to be thinking about weight or speed or momentum, they just want to be safe and have fun.

Same with kids and life. If the principles involve safety and fun and learning, balance is VERY different from "self-regulation."

[Radical Mama]

I like the term personal homeostasis. That is how I have been understanding it.

It speaks to balance and naturalness, and then personal assures that it is understood to be individualized.

[Benjamin Gilbert]

Sandra Dodd said:

-=-Words matter, certainly, but if the underlying ideas aren't clear, the words can be twisted.-=-

It's likely that "the underlying ideas" will be created of words and concepts involving terms.
If the underlying ideas are created using words that have other baggage, the ideas won't be clear in the first place.

"Regulation" has to do with rules and measurements and what is "regular," repeating, prescribed, expected.

"Balance" is natural. A rock can balance. A rock can't regulate.

If a person balances on a teeter board or a beam or sitting on a wall, it involves the body, and wordless skills. The idea of balance hardly enters into it. A kid riding a bike or skateboarding is dealing with balance but doesn't even need to know the word for it to be happening. They don't need to be thinking about weight or speed or momentum, they just want to be safe and have fun.

Same with kids and life. If the principles involve safety and fun and learning, balance is VERY different from "self-regulation."

As I was reading this I was thinking, "Not only do you not have to think about it to balance on a bike, but half the difficulty of learning to ride is learning to *stop* thinking about it. Because that's usually when you crash.

[Sandra Dodd]

Right. I thought about it some more later, and the "thought" or intention isn't even to balance, but not to fall down. And so with people's relationships the idea isn't "have balance" but "don't screw it up." :-)

(and it's nice to see you here!)

[Benjamin Gilbert]

Nice to be here :)

Funny to think I've been reading unschooling boards (Starting back at unschooling.com) for something like ten years now. Still no kids, but we're getting close now. Now that houses are within reach for the first time in years we're aggressively trying to buy one. Once we have that, we're going to get the ball rolling on adoption.

I feel kind of silly sometimes because I've been talking about adopting all these years, but then I think about how much love and energy we've put into getting to a place where adoption is feasible, and I feel better.

It's funny, a relatively local unschooler pointed out to me that our current apartment is literally right down the street from Dr. Sears' pediatric clinic. Maybe a quarter mile away. I'd passed it many a time and never realized.

The area we're looking for a house in is a bit further away, but we'd be close enough to take the kids there. Kind of a cool coincidence :)