She's asking to go to school, HELP!

[Darcel]

I don't know what to do. I asked her if she wanted to have school at home with me. She said yes and was very excited. I ask her what she wants to do every day and if we can we do it. If not we make plans to do it another day.
This morning she looks at me and says "I want to go to school on the bus with the kids"

Of course she wants to go back, it was all fun and games. I'm sure she would've enjoyed it until 1st grade when they start telling her she's not good enough.
So I'm lost once again and don't know what to do or say to her when she says that to me.
She also told me I was her teacher at home.

Sometimes I wish I never would've enrolled her in the speech therapy.
We took her up to the school a few weeks ago because we were going to enroll her again. We thought she enjoyed it so much, so why not. Then I started researching unschooling again, and we decided to keep her home with us.

[Dave Scotese]

I used to walk to school in the mornings with my daughters whenever they felt like it so that they could see friends. The school eventually sent us a letter saying that we weren't allowed on school grounds if we weren't enrolled. We can still walk, but since the playground activity before the first bell is no longer available, they aren't too interested in it.

But now I'm considering encouraging them to walk so we can hang out with friends just outside the school grounds. That could be beneficial to all. Hmm...

[Jacob Seligmann]

Hi Darcel,
I've been following your posts. i feel for you, but you can handle it. And I can't possibly tell you you're doing the right thing, becasue i don't know if i am, nor does anyone really KNOW they're doing the right thing... but i do certainly think so... School is not cool.. that's why we're here... you know it. So just keep doing what you're doing and try new stuff you're finding here and elsewhere...
... some suggestions... and i don't claim to know anything...
1) the bathroom is fun
blow bubbles
kids love them, and water
fill up the sink, play boats, put up shows... little plays... finger puppets... kids love stories...
and making them up is fun...
use little characters, stuffed animals, whatever...
make it really fun... if she asks to go to school... make up a show about it with her
animals or little creatures... maybe go through some of the stuff she knows she wouldn't like...
i agree with sandra about trying to get away from talking about school... but if she keeps
bringing it up... go with her... but make it fun... make it a show! Shows are great... and just let yourself loose and make great stuff up... challenge yourself... and she'll love it and go along...
also... what if you tell her that you've decided not to send her to school (and explain, because
i know mine don't understand that you can't just go to a day at school... they make you go all the time... it's not like the zoo) but then ask her if she could have anything else, what would it be? where would she go... if you can't make that happen, see if you can find something she really wants to do that you can make happen somehow... i know it's tough... i feel for you... and i really hope you can work it out... just try to have as much fun as you can...

jacob

good luck

[Meredith]

"don't give in and put her in school if she continues to want it but you and your husband are still agreed to keep her home."

There are a lot of other things I would do (and have, with my 7yo) before agreeing to let her try school - small classes, clubs, play dates and play groups, being more attentive to her needs... Lots of things to try. But at some point, if my kid was really insisting, I'd certainly let her try it. Chances are, she'd want to stay home after only a short time of it, my kid, that is. She doesn't like being talked down to, or quizzed, and she certainly doesn't sit still well! So I'm pretty confident school would lose big time, once the shiny wore off (as the saying goes). That's a judgement call about a particular child and particular family, though.

"There are some decisions we have to make for their own good. You are the mommy, and there is a reason for that. If kids could make ALL their own decisions, they wouldn't need parents. "

Kids need the help of their parents in learning to make thoughtful decisions, that's for sure. At the same time, I don't think its helpful to stick with ideas like the above - its a short step from there to overriding a child's own boundaries and instincts and judgement "for their own good" in ways that, ultimately, undermine self confidence and get in the way of the child's ability to make decisions. I want my kids to think about things, not just take my word for it, because sometimes I'm the one who's wrong.

Its challenging to help younger children problem solve. It takes a lot more time and effort and thinking, on the part of parents, than saying "I'm the mom, that's why". All that time and effort and thought is an important part of unschooling, though - its modelling thoughtfulness and care and mutual support in ways that making decisions for children doesn't - can't possibly do.

One of the strategies that can nurture a child's ability to make decisions is by experimenting. Brainstorm some ideas and then try them out. Talk about your experiences and results. Does this solution seem to work for everyone? Can we adjust it? Should we change it? The joy of unschooling is you're never locked into one decision, one way of doing things. That's empowering! for kids and adults, both. You're Not Stuck with what you have now - you can change and change again, and that's a good thing.

[Katherine]

I want my kids to think about things, not just take my word for it, because sometimes I'm the one who's wrong.

Meredith I just laughed when I read this because for me it's not sometimes... it's lotsatimes. Karl causes me by his comments and questions to rethink many of my longest-held assumptions. It's a good thing for me and for Karl to think through what we're doing together. It relieves me of the burden of always trying to be right... the first time. It helps me see that there are way more ways than one way to do things. What we do, all of us including Karl, is to find better ways. Karl brings fresh perspectives and most of what I do is just same ole same old without Karl's input. I don't think there's anything like having a child to bring the possibility of newness into life.
____

[Meredith]

"I have no problem exposing my children to advanced ideas - death, pain, sexual drives, religious debates, the crusades, etc. The sooner they can understand things, the better."

Kids, even young children, naturally think about big, deep issues, without those things being handed to them. They explore ethics, ideas of life and death, good and evil, thoughfulness and dogma on a regular basis, as a part of their natural development. If you watch and listen and play with your child(ren), letting them do a lot of leading and directing along the way, you can see that (don't just take my word for it!). You don't have to introduce complex ideas - kids have complex ideas. They look different from adult ideas because kids are kids. They play "Godzilla smashes legoland" rather than having a philosophical discussion about war because to a young child the play is the philosophical discussion. If you want to join in, you can say "can I play too?" and let your kid tell you how to play along.

This spring I had the chance to watch a fairly large group of 6-12yo unschoolers play a three day game of "nerf war". They created teams with mission statements and made a lot of speeches at each other... it wasn't what I remember from playing "war" as a kid. There was a lot of negotiating over territory and the disposition of prisoners. There were complex ideas being tossed around! It was pretty spectacular.

"Do not underestimate your child's ability to understand the damage from which you are trying to protect her. Just make sure you're honest."

And be ready to have her be skeptical, even disbelieving. Why should a child believe what you say? That's an important question to think about. What proof does a young child really have that your ideas, your so called facts, are better, more relevant or true than hers? Why should she believe for a moment in this so-called damage to her so-called psyche? Not all adults would believe it, why should a child?

That's the trouble with assuming you can explain the big bad world to children - they have no reason to trust your view is any more relevant than theirs. Over time, that may change. If you can be consistently trustworthy from your child's perspective he or she will value what you have to say about the world. Being trustworthy from a child's perspective is challenging!

Adults are contradictory so much of the time, to a child's eyes. Its important to think about what you do as much as what you say. If you are lecturing your child about the damage that school does, you are giving mixed messages! What is the damage that school does? It undermines critical thinking, for one, by focusing on right answers proper behavior - and yet that's exactly what you are doing if you say "this is bad, believe me, I know." You set yourself up as the approved source of what's right and good.

On the other hand, every time you work with your child to meet her needs in ways that are thoughtful of others, every time you help her problem solve a complex situation, you set yourself up as trustworthy and you actively model thoughtful, considerate decision making.

[Meredith]

Now she's saying we're having school at home and I'm the teacher.

You've brought this up a couple times - are you worried about the whole "teacher" aspect somehow? It could easily be that your dd has some happy ideas of her own about who and what a "teacher" is - she hasn't lived your life, and doesn't have your baggage, after all. Unschooling kids often don't have the same hangups about the ideas of teaching and teachers that folks who've been through school do - why would they? That's not their life.

[Dave Scotese]

What I've found useful, with adults and children alike, when I feel like coercively stopping them from doing something, is to explain what I'm worried about, or my opinion that they aren't worrying about it enough:

"I don't think you are afraid enough of tripping while you do that. Can you imagine the damage to you naked little knees?" If she's brave, and does it anyway, this preface makes dealing with a skinned knee that much easier. Of course, I could destroy that beauty by saying "See, I told you so." But I don't.

Our 7-year-old has started asking me a lot of science questions. Yesterday, we covered DNA encoding, transcription, and the folding of proteins. It makes me laugh. But our 10-year-old "hates research". I'm sure that she hates research because she likes conversation a lot more than reading, and conversations with mom and dad answer all her questions. She asks me, and if it interests me (which it often does), I'll do the research, and that is a crutch to her, and it's atrophying her ability to do research herself. This is something I've been thinking about lately.

My general disposition is that whatever I feel like doing is usually the right thing, and in this case, I can still see that possibility. The 7yo asks questions I can answer, and I enjoy answering them. The 10yo is asking "What's a good argument against the idea that cheerleading is sport?" Funny, she's asking because it's a writing assignment from the CAVA "home-school" program. I just realized that. She does love cheerleading though... Anyway, if 10yo asks questions to which I have good answers, I'll just answer. Maybe what I'm doing is the right thing because rewarding the curiosity is enough to create the spark that creates strong research skills.

In fact, I did give her one answer - that cheerleading doesn't have offense and defense - so it isn't really a sport. I also helped her knock it down - gymnastics is a sport (the Olympics is the metric, I guess) but also doesn't have offense and defense.

My wife got in on the issue too and did the research (because she really is interested), and found that high-level cheer officials don't want it to be a sport because if it were, state laws would begin interfering with high school cheer programs. So there's the interference of the government again. I can't seem to escape it. But that is for another rant somewhere else.

It would have been SO much more interesting if 10yo brought up the issue because of a debate on her cheer squad. I really wonder how it would have played out then. Maybe I should write a story. Hmm...

To come full circle, I see my strategy of explaining my worries is correct and at work in this case, because I have begun having conversations with 10yo about the fact that she has superficial beauty and that makes her a great spokesperson, and that it will be important for her to avoid being used for evil, and to be a force of good instead. I haven't yet showed her this.

[Meredith]

"But our 10-year-old "hates research". I'm sure that she hates research because she likes conversation a lot more than reading, and conversations with mom and dad answer all her questions. She asks me, and if it interests me (which it often does), I'll do the research, and that is a crutch to her, and it's atrophying her ability to do research herself. This is something I've been thinking about lately."

There are different ways to do research, though. Some people learn best through social interactions. They do "research" by asking questions directly of people. My 15yo is like that. He learns a lot that way - now and then he'll read something or look something up on the internet, but he's really fantastic at gathering data from people. Questions like "what do you think about xyz?" can be a great way to gather a whole lot of interesting data, from the perspective of a very social person. Ray's not Just interested in the answer to the question, but to the way its answered and the aspects of personality that come to the surface of the person answering.

[Darcel]

She has started asking to go again. We are going to try the role playing of school, she seems to like that.

I don't want her to feel that we aren't listening to what she wants to do.
Things are so tight around here financially so I think she's geting bored with being at home now. I'm searching for fun things we can do around the neighborhood or places not too far from here.

[Darcel]

My oldest is interested in death. It makes my husband uncomfortable. I know she's not thinking of it the same way we are, so I talk to her about it. He tries to change the subject. She knows what he's doing and keeps asking until all of her questions are answered.

[Darcel]

Hi Jacob,

Thanks for all of your ideas. I feel like I'm doing the right things. Sometimes I don't feel like I'm doing enough or doing it exactly right.
I have no problems asking questions :)
The type of school she's asking to go to was the speech therapy. It was 3 days a week back in MN.

Here it would've been 5 days a week for 3 hours a day. She liked riding the bus and she still asks to ride the bus whenever she sees one. She says the bus is going to her school.
So it was pretty much like preschool. She has no idea what how it would change from year to year. She's 4.5

[Darcel]

I suppose it's because I associate being a teacher with school. I hated school after the 4th grade.

I know she loved her teacher when we were living in MN last summer.
She had the bookbag, they did circle time, it was speech therapy, but set up like preschool.
That's what she thinks school is and that's what she wants to go back to.