Some Questions About Art

[Chessa]

I originally posted this on my blog, but someone suggested that the Forum might be a better place for it.

I've been struggling to find my place (role?) in my 2.5 year-old's art journey. I've already written about how I have a bit of visual art-o-phobia. I've been doing some thinking and came up with some questions.

Do you do art WITH your child? If your child is say, painting, do you paint with him/her? Or do you sit and watch? Or do something unrelated nearby, but check in often (i.e. fold laundry)?

I know this is probably individual to both the parent and child's disposition. I guess where I'm coming from is reading in a few art books (Susan Striker's) that parent's should NOT model doing the art for the child, because we will automatically limit their expression if they see the parent doing it a particular way (whether it's the "right" way or not). So I've tried really hard to just let Silas do the art his own way.

But he often says, "Mama, you draw, too," and I feel weird about saying No. I usually say, "No, I like to watch you draw." But then he usually gets bored and goes on to something else (even if I'm sitting right there with him).

What do you think? Do you think that parents doing art WITH their child automatically limits their experience with the materials?

I want Silas to have as much freedom as possible to express himself. But I also, personally, know the feeling of being overwhelmed by too many possibilities.

I know toddlers LOVE to imitate the adults in their lives (the words that come out of Silas's mouth attest to this fact, unfortunately!). So where does creative expression fit in? Silas dances his own way when he moves to music - he's not "copying" my moves for the most part. But learning songs, he does sing to the "right" tune. Where does visual art fit in? Is it best to model, to let them have complete free reign, or do a bit of both?

I will add that I have never had any issue with doing playdough with Silas. For some reason "modeling" that activity has never sent up warning bells for me. It's more drawing, painting, coloring, etc. that send up my worry flags. And really, I wonder if it's because those are the activities that I have the least confidence about my own abilities. Hmmm.

[Alison B.]

"I don't want him to see my picture and think, "Oh, that's how I'm supposed to paint, not what I'm doing."

My son has always loved to draw. I've had a bit of an art phobia which I've slowly gotten over but he likes someone to do what he does while he does what he does. So I draw w/ my son. He has great detail and that's not my strong point so I kind of do rough sketch kind of thing for background. What's funny is you could say he's copied my technique that I guess he found interesting and made it his own. Now he uses that same kind of wild sketching that I do bc I can't be that specific drawing and brought his own sense of art to it and made it completely his own. He does this bc he hasn't had anyone say it's supposed to be any way or another. He uses everything as fodder for his art.

When he was really young like your son, we started sometimes going to art museums and basically run through them. We'd be in and out in about 15 minutes or less. He'd see something and draw it. same w/ TV. What he saw would find it's way into his art. Everything finds it's way into it.

I think what you're worried about comes later when a person has experienced the "right and wrong" way of doing things and then doesn't trust themselves any more. I don't believe that's a natural thing for a child to think.

[Joyce Fetteroll]

There's a difference between doing art with a child and doing it for him. If you're drawing at the same time you aren't showing him how it's supposed to be done. You're both doing your own thing. It's a companionable activity. If you have teacher voices in your head, try moving away from the activities tied to the voices. Do abstract and free expression rather than representational art, for example.

And it's useful for creativity to see different techniques, like someone sketching, or using fat markers, or drawing moving their arm rather than the wrist, working with colors. Otherwise kids are creating from scratch when there's a world of experience to draw from. Free expression is a good thing to nurture, but there's a great deal to be learned by absorbing -- freely when they want to -- from what others are doing.

Of course it depends on the child. Some kids may be highly critical of their own efforts and seeing someone else do something easily could frustrate them. If he's asking, I'd do it with him. Unschooling is about being sensitive to what *your* child wants not what some expert says is best for children in general.

[Robyn L. Coburn]

I replied to the blog post, and I don't want to get repetitive, but I will just add Chessa your son will not be judging your abilities! Use this chance to explore the tactility of paint, the feeling of marking with crayons, pencils or brushes and not worry about your skills level, if you can. It may be that you are a sculptor. There is no reason why you can't do clay (btw playdough is not as good as air dry clay for three dimensions) while he draws or paints next to you.
Also for many really inexpensive art supplies that vary over time American Science and Surplus - oh joy, oh joy!! Freedom from worry about waste.
As for coloring books, Jayn has always seen them as decidedly inferior to her own drawings, and we have had plenty around including some very pretty ones from American Girl that she periodically does a bit of coloring in. She is working on an illustrated story book that she plans to sell on Etsy, that is all b&w ink drawings that she considers to be a coloring book. (You get to name the heroine too.) I remember drawing tiny little figures all over whatever the drawing was in the coloring book when I was young, as if the drawing was a mountain or giant city.
When Jayn was very small, I thought it would be fine to give her recycled paper from computer misprints for her to draw on the back side. Once I saw the masterpieces she was making, I decided to give her only fresh paper so that I could frame them without bleedthrough showing, and use the recycled paper for notes, shopping lists, my own rough sketches, and as backing paper. Jayn loves having nice paper and good pens to use. We have given nicely framed paintings by Jayn as gifts to family.

[Bea Mantovani]

"The idea that everything has to be made from scratch and in isolation is incredibly absurd and definitely goes against the principles of unschooling."

I think it's in the same category as the argument that TV is bad for kids because it stifles the imagination (as opposed to books or story telling, which are supposed to foster it because there is less visual stimulation.) There are some philosophies (Waldorf comes to mind, but it's not the only one) that seem to be saying kids should be put in a bubble and not exposed to anything that could damage their "purity"... It seems very limiting to me, making the world artificially smaller than it is, whereas unschooling is all about offering kids a big world.

Bea

[Chessa]

I love the idea of unschooling offering kids a big world!

We are new to this, and only within the last two months have we introduced TV to Silas, so this notion of letting him out of the artifical bubble is ringing very true to me. It's difficult (particularly since my partner is having a hard time with the TV thing) and I want to protect Silas (from what? the evil of the world? need to think more clearly on this some more) but I definitely do NOT want to make his world small. This is a really useful analogy for me, thank you for posting it. :)

[Chessa]

Thank you Alison and Gwen for posting, it makes me feel better to know that others have been in this position before.

Alison, I love the idea that your son took your technique and put his own stamp on it. What a great way of thinking about it. Of course Silas is going to draw inspiration from the world around him (including me!) but he will be filtering through his own perspective and experience, so it will naturally become his own. That's so wonderful!

[Meredith]

Artists do LOTS of collaboration, happenings and activities that put a real different spin on things in the field

Artists also learn new techniques by flat-out copying other artists. Its both a traditional way to teach art and a natural tendency - hey, show me how you did that. Artists adore copying each other, playing off each others' ideas. Children pick that up naturally because its how they learn. Its how people of all ages learn.

[Meredith]

Now he uses that same kind of wild sketching that I do bc I can't be that specific drawing and brought his own sense of art to it and made it completely his own. He does this bc he hasn't had anyone say it's supposed to be any way or another. He uses everything as fodder for his art.

This has been true of Mo as well - although I'm more methodical, rather than sketching with wild abandon ;) But she has taken what she saw me doing and made it her own thing, for sure. She loves all kind of "how to draw" books and games, but doesn't get locked in to any one kind of method. She tries things and sees what works for her.

When he was really young like your son, we started sometimes going to art museums and basically run through them. We'd be in and out in about 15 minutes or less.

Mo's still this way. I didn't know you could look at so many things so quickly! I'm usually breathing so hard by the end of museum I can't remember a thing. But she takes a lot in, and pulls out ideas about color and shape later when she's drawing or painting - or papercutting, which is one of her passions. She's also heavily inspired by tv cartoons. The drawing is so much more accessible to her - she can make those shapes more easily than what she sees in "high art" (as it were). She has spent time studying the ways characters are drawn, how motion is drawn, how expressions are drawn. Tv has been her favorite art resource by far.