Unschooling & NVC

[Celese]

Hi everyone!

I am just wondering whether any of you out there use non-violent communication (NVC) with your children and whether you might have any comments, advice, references, stories or encouragement to share that would be wonderful!

Thanks :)

[Sandra Dodd]

I've seen more problems than benefits.  Below is something from 2010.  I think unschooling's own principles, learning to see your child as a whole person (not "just a kid"), learning to think and make a choice before you speak or act, is better than NVC.

2. What’s your perspective on non-violent communication?

I don't like the false overlay "NVC" puts on the world. I've seen people fail to have direct presence and mindfulness because they were mentally trying to label people and judge their expressions of feeling or desire. I prefer people be compassionate and flexible about communicating with others, rather than to pre-decide there is only one way they will communicate or accept being communicated with.

Although it can be a good healing tool for an adult who suffered years of verbal abuse and is in recovery, as a starting place, or as something to impose on or require of others, it's unnatural. As for communication between a child and his parents, it's overkill and takes time that could be better used just listening to one another without wondering what a book or a coach would have to say about it.

Choices and compassion will cover that, in an unschooling family where children and parents live closely together as partners.

http://sandradodd.com/interviews/naturalparenting2010

[Meredith]

The biggest issues with NVC come when people use it as a set of rules to mandate a particular style of verbal communication, and/or use those rules as a tactic for manipulation. People run into similar problems when they try to use "unschooling" as a set of rules! The basic principles of NVC are valuable: listen first, strive to understand, look for clarification to be sure you're not projecting your own assumptions on other people, be thoughtful. Those are all useful communication skills. But more often people focus on the talking parts and try to use NVC as a way to "tell" rather than a way to hear. Communication starts with listening and looking. If you can work on those, the specific strategies will come down to what helps you be more observant and thoughtful. 

[Meredith]

Generally speaking, when people bring up the matter of "communicating with children" they aren't thinking about the children - they're thinking "how can I get my kid to do what I want" or "how do I teach my kids to communicate (do what I want)". Now and again, people also make the mistake of thinking unschooling is a kinder, gentler way to get kids to cooperate. It can help to consider the idea of living by principles:

http://sandradodd.com/principles/

[Joyce Fetteroll]

First you might want to really look at the foundation of NVC. It's purpose is to provide a means for adversaries to cooperate who don't have a desire to. It's been adapted for families, but its foundation isn't about bringing people closer or growing relationships. Any relationship benefits would be an inadvertent side effect rather than built into the method.

I like what Meredith said. Communication between parent and child shouldn't be about two adversaries negotiating but about being a better partner to the child. It's about  you being a better listener than better at communicating your needs to the child.

[Celese]

Thank you all for such quick responses! I am VERY new to both unschooling and nvc & have only read "Parenting from your heart"-Kashtan, however as I was raised With a lot of doubt, fear & control, I am in the process of undoing this for myself and wish to give the gift of effective communication and freedom (among other things of course) to my daughter.
And Sandra, I read a sample of your book last night and am looking forward to reading the rest - it feels very straightforward to me and it is the first I have heard of deschooling as a parent (& the need for it) so I can see that this is going to be a very rewarding process for myself as well as my family.
So far, using the techniques presented in the above mentioned book, I have seen some definite decreases in my daughter's frustrations (she is 2), and some progress for myself in terms of identifying our needs and being more present with each other. I adapt as needed and not only use in times of "conflict" but in times when she is quite happily playing along. We are not strict on using NVC as our only method of communication, however more than anything it has helped me to stop and observe much better! She has now begun to stop crying Quite quickly if she has become upset for some reason, and tell me what is happening and why she is upset, so this makes things much easier and relaxed for me (first time parent!).
Again, thank you all for your input! I am so happy to have found this group. :)

[Meredith]

She has now begun to stop crying Quite quickly if she has become upset for some reason, and tell me what is happening and why she is upset, so this makes things much easier and relaxed for me (first time parent!).

I'm glad it's helping you!

At the same time (since many others will read this and you may have other children) I want to point out that there's a lot of personality involved in what you're describing. I have one kid (now 18) who could consistently tell me why he was upset from a young age, so long as I was willing to listen, and another who is unlikely to tell me in words in a moment of stress, regardless, even now that she's 10. So with him it was a matter of learning to stop and listen, but with her it has been more a matter of tuning in to all her non-verbal cues as well as knowing her likes and dislikes in general and keeping up with what's going on in her world on a day to day basis. 

It's also important, depending on your child, to step away from ideas that "stop crying quickly" is the goal. Some kids need more time to cry or otherwise vent their emotions before being able to "move on" and if parents are too keen to rush the process they can actually make things worse especially by any kind of talking. That's when principles are more valuable than any particular methodology. 

[Samantha Stopple]

I think NVC can be very helpful as a tool, yet I think it's way more than a tool. It can be used incorrectly just like you could use How to Talk So Kid's Will Listen to make kids change. 

It's can help someone new to unschooling see the difference between a real observation as opposed to an evaluation. So before you take a guess at what you are needing or you think your kids or anyone is needing you want to make sure you are make a true observation. I remember when my daughter was about 8yrs. She was making a sandwich but my first thought was she was making a mess. Rather than react to that I said to myself stop. What is she doing. What am I really seeing. I've seen the same kind of help on the unschooling lists over the years. For me the steps that NVC offers gave me a clearer framework to process it in addition to what I have learned on unschooling lists over the years.

NVC  is  way more than handling adversarial situations.  It's about awareness, paying attention to the words we use, learning how not to react to the words others use. Like my example above you learn how our language affects how we react. If you see making a mess you are likely to be frustrated. If you see someone is making food then you might feel more like celebrating. Rosenberg, the author, speaks about “have to.” He says you don't have to. He says we do things because we choose to because they meet some need. Ideally we want to be aware of what we are choosing to do and why. The last chapter in the book is about how to express appreciation. How to say something more than “good job.” About parenting but also any relationship NVC says if we do want people to do something different what do we want the their reason to be? Ideally we want people to do things for us because they see the inherent value in doing so not becaue they should or have to.  

Yes the process as described in the book is very formulaic. You don't have to use the formulaic steps. It's the principles of the process that are important not how you do it. You don't ever need to say a word to use NVC. One time my daughter was really upset with a friend. I tried to understand what was going on by talking with her to help her but she got even more upset. So I responded silently. Each time she said something. I took a guess at what she was needing and feeling. It took a few times and she was calm and moved on.

As I mentioned above NVC like any book on parenting or communication can be used badly.  Don't try to change overnight. Just try to do better at each moment and apoligize for the times you don't. You don't have to connect all the time.   For me it's more about rewiring how I think.  I highly recommend if NVC is something that resonates with you after reading the book to attend a workshop. If you are lucky enough to live in a good sized city or are close to one you can get to them easily and many won't turn you way for lack of funds. Working through the process in real life really clarifies things.

[Celese]

HMmm great point! I will definitely keep that in mind. I have found though that she has also become a lot more affectionate as well as identifying why she's upset... Not sure if it's a coincidence(?) I am guilty of wanting to stop crying sooner, however I think at this point with my girl it's been a positive step for both of us (particularly because I am one who finds it difficult to express with words).

Thank you for your input!!! It's great to hear/read "real life" examples & advice :)



Meredith said:

She has now begun to stop crying Quite quickly if she has become upset for some reason, and tell me what is happening and why she is upset, so this makes things much easier and relaxed for me (first time parent!).

I'm glad it's helping you!

At the same time (since many others will read this and you may have other children) I want to point out that there's a lot of personality involved in what you're describing. I have one kid (now 18) who could consistently tell me why he was upset from a young age, so long as I was willing to listen, and another who is unlikely to tell me in words in a moment of stress, regardless, even now that she's 10. So with him it was a matter of learning to stop and listen, but with her it has been more a matter of tuning in to all her non-verbal cues as well as knowing her likes and dislikes in general and keeping up with what's going on in her world on a day to day basis. 

It's also important, depending on your child, to step away from ideas that "stop crying quickly" is the goal. Some kids need more time to cry or otherwise vent their emotions before being able to "move on" and if parents are too keen to rush the process they can actually make things worse especially by any kind of talking. That's when principles are more valuable than any particular methodology. 

[Celese]

Thanks Samantha,
Fortunately NVC, unschooling & a few other influences have come into my life at the same time & at this point all seem to complement each other. The biggest thing for me though has been observation, awareness & just watching, learning to use my language effectively, and the amazing benefits which have come from that. My focus has not been on wanting her to change but to understand her better & I feel NVC has been a great tool for me so far. I'm working on making my toolkit bigger though! Sandra's book has been a wondrous and enlightening read - I'm about to read it again!


Samantha Stopple said:

I think NVC can be very helpful as a tool, yet I think it's way more than a tool. It can be used incorrectly just like you could use How to Talk So Kid's Will Listen to make kids change. 

It's can help someone new to unschooling see the difference between a real observation as opposed to an evaluation. So before you take a guess at what you are needing or you think your kids or anyone is needing you want to make sure you are make a true observation. I remember when my daughter was about 8yrs. She was making a sandwich but my first thought was she was making a mess. Rather than react to that I said to myself stop. What is she doing. What am I really seeing. I've seen the same kind of help on the unschooling lists over the years. For me the steps that NVC offers gave me a clearer framework to process it in addition to what I have learned on unschooling lists over the years.

NVC  is  way more than handling adversarial situations.  It's about awareness, paying attention to the words we use, learning how not to react to the words others use. Like my example above you learn how our language affects how we react. If you see making a mess you are likely to be frustrated. If you see someone is making food then you might feel more like celebrating. Rosenberg, the author, speaks about “have to.” He says you don't have to. He says we do things because we choose to because they meet some need. Ideally we want to be aware of what we are choosing to do and why. The last chapter in the book is about how to express appreciation. How to say something more than “good job.” About parenting but also any relationship NVC says if we do want people to do something different what do we want the their reason to be? Ideally we want people to do things for us because they see the inherent value in doing so not becaue they should or have to.  

Yes the process as described in the book is very formulaic. You don't have to use the formulaic steps. It's the principles of the process that are important not how you do it. You don't ever need to say a word to use NVC. One time my daughter was really upset with a friend. I tried to understand what was going on by talking with her to help her but she got even more upset. So I responded silently. Each time she said something. I took a guess at what she was needing and feeling. It took a few times and she was calm and moved on.

As I mentioned above NVC like any book on parenting or communication can be used badly.  Don't try to change overnight. Just try to do better at each moment and apoligize for the times you don't. You don't have to connect all the time.   For me it's more about rewiring how I think.  I highly recommend if NVC is something that resonates with you after reading the book to attend a workshop. If you are lucky enough to live in a good sized city or are close to one you can get to them easily and many won't turn you way for lack of funds. Working through the process in real life really clarifies things.