Welcome new members!

[Meredith]

I just approved a whole stack of pending members so I'll do a big group hello and general info. First, if anyone is wondering "am I in the right place?" or "what do you mean by "radical"?" here are a couple big websites to help you out:

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/

http://sandradodd.com/unschooling

 

and an ongoing thread here entitled "What is Radical Unschooling?"

 

It's also a Really Good Idea, if you're interested in the discussion forum, to read for awhile first and get a "feel" for the format, there. It's different than anywhere except other radical unschooling discussions, and I don't like to see people get their feelings hurt. Forum guidelines are Here.

 

If you're looking to connect with others with similar interests (besides unschooling - we're a very diverse bunch!) check out the Groupssection. You'll find a gentle supportgroup, a group for Chrisitanunschoolers, African Americanunschoolers, a group discussing issues of social justice, local groups, groups for people who like gardening and more!

 

Also please check out the calender of events down on the main page - see if there's an unschooling conference or gathering near you, or if you know of one that isn't listed, add it! There's nothing like meeting in person.

[Queen Lairen]

I am a sahm whose daughter (10) has never been to school. I've been homeschooling for 10 years & unschooling just recently. I'm looking to build a network of friends who believe as I do. I need the support of an unschooling community.

[Liz King]

Hi Meredith-

Thanks for approving my membership here- I am a full time working single mom with a daughter in 5th grade at public school. This is her third year of being absolutely miserable-- I've watched her go from loving to learn anything to hating waking up in the morning and coming home to stacks of meaningless homework. She is "advanced" but the schools won't skip her, instead they're just giving her more and more of the same crap.

I have just recently considered seriously looking into homeschooling-- before I never thought it was an option because I have to work full time, but I'm to the point where I am willing to figure it out no matter what- I cannot sit by while my kid wastes so much of her young life like this.

I've spent the last two hours online trying to get some very basic information about unschooling as it resonates deeply with me and what I want for Zoe.  I understand the philosophy and the concept of unschooling-- what I can't seem to find is the actual step-by-step of going from a public school to unschooling, as in:

1)Do I need to first get a homeschool credentials of some kind? Do I sign up for some kind of homeschool group or curriculum and then toss it?

2)Once I do, aren't there some kind of state-regulated standards that I will have to prove Zoe is keeping up with?

I'm all in for this-- my questions are of the legality so I don't get tossed in jail for making my kid's life better.

If this is already mentioned on this forum somewhere, please point me there-- I have found tons of unschooling sites and checked the links above, but they seem to focus mostly on the concept of unschooling versus the legal issues one must face. That and my eyeballs are going to fall out if I keep searching.

Thanks so much in advance-- Liz

[Joyce Fetteroll]

The reason you're probably getting confused is that the rules are different in every state. So unless you're looking at the rules in just your state you'll get all sorts of conflicting information.

 

Sandra has a collection of state lists at her site:

http://sandradodd.com/world

 

and there are groups here that might cover your state. Click on "Groups" up above under the title.

 

Joyce

[Liz King]

Thanks for the response but again it just points to groups with forums and I keep ending up searching through pages and pages of forum posts with no answers on this. (Which was why I joined this group.) Looks like there are lots of CA unschoolers here in this group. Anyone willing to share their story of how they went from public ed to unschooling?  Just looking for basics here- I would assume there is a general format to follow in CA?

Joyce Fetteroll said:

The reason you're probably getting confused is that the rules are different in every state. So unless you're looking at the rules in just your state you'll get all sorts of conflicting information.

 

Sandra has a collection of state lists at her site:

http://sandradodd.com/world

 

and there are groups here that might cover your state. Click on "Groups" up above under the title.

 

Joyce

[laura bowman]

this might be more what you're looking for:

http://unschoolers.com/california.html

[laura bowman]

this is also useful:

http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/laws/blCA.htm

[Meredith]

Technically, unschooling is a type of homeschooling, so you need to be conversant with all the homeschool regulations for your state - sometimes that's confusing at first, since the philosophy of unschooling isn't necessarily about schooling and education but learning and living. What also gets confusing when you're first looking for information on the legal stuff is that, depending on where you live, there's a kind of loop-hole which lets homeschoolers become a kind of private school - and I don't know the details for CA, but I think that's the case, there, you become a Private school in some way (umbrella association? charter? those might be words to use to get the kind of info you're looking for). Generally speaking, becoming a private school puts you in a different legal category than either public school or homeschool (maybe, sort of, depends on where you live!) so you need to comply with Those regulation - private school regulations, rather than homeschool. In some places, that makes things easier... once you figure it all out. 

 

The first thing to find out, maybe, is how long you have to inform the school district what's going on. It may be you can pull her out of school and spend a month doing research before anyone comes breathing down your neck.

[Liz King]

Thanks for the info Meredith and Laura- the second link is definitely useful when I need to cross that bridge and apply to .. be a private school, etc etc... 

So then here is where I'm still fuzzy and I'm wondering if you can tell me what you did in this case-- or anyone else for that matter--

Let's say I (in whatever way) begin to homeschool her-- I get that status, cert, whatever. So that's out of the way--

I am assuming as unschooling is intuitive, learner-initiated learning, there would be no curriculum, so the big question I have is-- in general (not state by state) is there a requirement that one follows a curriculum that's provided by a certain institution and how do you get around that with unschooling? And in general (again not state to state) don't you have to in some way "prove" to "the state" that your kids are learning certain things at certain times and how do you get around that? 

Would you (did you) "buy into" some kind of homeschool program and then just toss out the curriculum? I mean, do you have to somewhat say (to legally cover your butt) "we're a part of this homeschool organization but you don't actually use the provided curriculum?

My assumption (and plllleeeease please tell me if I'm wrong- I know nothing about this and desperately want to so please share your stories if possible or private message me if you're worried about sharing your stories!) is that 1) I legitimately transition to homeschooling status and acquire a curriculum from an already existing homeschool group that is accredited (?) from somewhere. (Is this a misconception? Do I have to have a curriculum or be associated with any group to homeschool? 2) toss the curriculum, begin unschooling.

Like I said, I have no idea how any of his works. I am not opposed to researching but I joined this group because you all are living this and I know the info I can get from you and your personal stories is time saving and more legit than spending months perusing other people's websites to get the answers you could give me from your own experience. I will still be researching this heavily, I just prefer stories of personal experience.  

Thanks so much for your help. I think I can do this!

 

 

Meredith said:

Technically, unschooling is a type of homeschooling, so you need to be conversant with all the homeschool regulations for your state - sometimes that's confusing at first, since the philosophy of unschooling isn't necessarily about schooling and education but learning and living. What also gets confusing when you're first looking for information on the legal stuff is that, depending on where you live, there's a kind of loop-hole which lets homeschoolers become a kind of private school - and I don't know the details for CA, but I think that's the case, there, you become a Private school in some way (umbrella association? charter? those might be words to use to get the kind of info you're looking for). Generally speaking, becoming a private school puts you in a different legal category than either public school or homeschool (maybe, sort of, depends on where you live!) so you need to comply with Those regulation - private school regulations, rather than homeschool. In some places, that makes things easier... once you figure it all out. 

 

The first thing to find out, maybe, is how long you have to inform the school district what's going on. It may be you can pull her out of school and spend a month doing research before anyone comes breathing down your neck.

[Meredith]

You don't need to buy a curriculum or in some way "pretend" to be "homeschooling" but depending on the local laws you may need to do some reporting - what and to whom varies considerably. For instance, in TN, where I live, I register my daughter as a homeschooler and I only need to report "attendance" and make a fairly vague statement as to "curriculum" - as in "general studies". No muss no fuss. However, with my stepson it was necessary to use an umbrella program where we needed to provide a "learning plan" - and for that I reported whatever he had done for the last several months as his goals for the next semester, preventing me from having to guess what he might be learning about in the future. 

 

In some places, reporting is done via yearly testing - but you might not have to report the test results to the state, or there might be no requirement beyond providing the results to the state - as in, the state has no legal right to do anything regardless of the results, provided the paperwork is filed on time. Bureaucracy can be a wonderful thing ;) 

 

Sometimes you get around testing by joining an umbrella program - we did with Ray - but in other places where testing is only required in certain grades, its common for homeschoolers to "skip" those grades by "repeating" a year and then "jumping ahead". Which is part of the reason homeschoolers test scores often look better than school kids - parents who know their kids won't test well don't have them tested. Sometimes testing is preferable to other forms of reporting or evaluation - it gives you more freedom as a family to do what you want. Wholly unschooling kids don't necessarily do worse on standardized tests - its amazing how much of that stuff kids slog through in school is general knowledge kids can pick up in the grocery store and watching tv!

 

Umbrella programs are a mixed bag and if you use one, you'll want to ask other homeschoolers about those in your area to help select one which suits your needs. Some are, by law, religious and may want you to sign something agreeing with their principles. Some provide a curriculum - in essence, an umbrella school is a private school which "employs" parents as teachers so you follow whatever are their requirements. Some have minimal requirements beyond an annual membership fee. 

 

In some areas, you need to have a portfolio or report to an evaluator, some of which are unschooling-friendly, others you'll need to take what your kids do naturally and frame it in educational terms your evaluator can understand. The idea isn't to hide what you're doing, but to make the powers that be comfortable that you're not neglecting your kids. Some unschoolers find keeping a regular blog works well for reporting purposes - either as a kind of portfolio in and of itself or as a way to jog their memories when writing up semester reports or creating "learning plans".

 

As you're checking for local info, don't limit yourself to just "unschooling" groups and sources. People homeschool for such a wide variety of reasons you can often find others who don't want to give the state one jot more information than is absolutely required by the letter of the law and the less information you give the better! that's important! don't volunteer anything extra! Don't even use the word "unschooling" wrt any kind of reporting until you're really, really sure of yourself and the laws. It only confuses things. A handy expression is "eclectic homeschooling" - its soooo much more vague than unschooling, but at the same time sounds more deliberate and it sets you up to be able to change your mind as often as you need to while you're figuring things out ;)

[Meredith]

Here's a link to a handy page of Sandra's site for parents looking for ways to report what their kids do naturally to the Powers That Be:

 

http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html

[Liz King]

OH that is the grail! (http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html) 

 

Thanks for that. And for anyone else who may one day read this thread and lives in CA, I found this very practical legal how-to which includes your homeschool options, how to file the paperwork, how to withdraw your kids and who to turn to if anyone comes a'knocking.

http://californiahomeschool.net/howTo/pdf/CHNJTF2010.pdf

 

I realized that I had an assumption that was wrong-- I thought one HAD to be associated with an established homeschool organization and therefore follow their curriculum in order to homeschool.  So naturally following that assumption, I thought that unschooling was not "legal" per say, and one had to pretend to be following said curriculum while actually doing their own teaching/learning. In reading the pdf (linked above) I found that (at least in CA) if I set my home up as a private school I not only don't have to have teaching credentials (god don't put ME through school!) but I can create my own curriculum as well-- or at least prove that we will in one way or another approach certain subjects. I didn't know that. 

 

I was talking about this whole idea with my daughter last night and we were brainstorming all the different ways she could learn certain things as opposed to how she is *not* learning them now. We could learn about the patterns of sea anemones by walking down to the tidepools every day and drawing them, how they move, how big they are and if they have babies! When she suggested we could figure out tide patterns and where the moon and sun are in the sky I almost wanted to cry. It's like for so long the sun and the sky has ceased to exist in her life... This is really exciting and I thank you all for keeping this dialogue open while we approach this. :)

 

[Meredith]

I was talking about this whole idea with my daughter last night and we were brainstorming all the different ways she could learn certain things as opposed to how she is *not* learning them now. We could learn about the patterns of sea anemones by walking down to the tidepools every day and drawing them, how they move, how big they are and if they have babies!

 

You could, but here's something else to think about, from a radical unschooling perspective <sneaky grin> - you don't Have To draw them or count them or catalog their patterns. You could walk down to the beach and play in the tidepools for the sheer pleasure of it and you would be learning things about the ocean and tides, tidepools and the plants and animals which inhabit them. All that drawing and cataloging might be fun, too, but you can choose to do it Because it's fun or choose to simply dabble along the strand and still be learning. 

 

Learning is something people do naturally - any time you're enjoying yourself, you're doing a bit of learning even if you don't realize it. Lots and lots of little connections are happening in your mind which inform your perception of the world, sometimes in very subtle ways but other times those little connections can add up to big life changing things. That's natural learning. It doesn't need records and diagrams and conclusions. 

 

When she suggested we could figure out tide patterns and where the moon and sun are in the sky I almost wanted to cry. It's like for so long the sun and the sky has ceased to exist in her life...

 

Keep your focus on her joy and enthusiasm and don't worry about whether or not she follows through on Any of that. If she's full of joy and enthusiasm, she's already learning more wonderfully than she ever did in school or with a curriculum. 

 

One piece of advice often given to new unschoolers is to live like you are on vacation for awhile - the good kind of vacation, not the dull kind where you're ready for school to begin again ;) In some ways, unschooling looks a lot like being on vacation. You do things because you want to, because they'll be fun and interesting or maybe because they'll bring you closer as a family or feed some personal, spiritual needs. You don't think about what's being learned or gained, though, for the most part - you discover those things later when your kids recall something that happened on a day when you thought they were just horsing around, living life. You don't plan for learning, you plan for joy and connection and know that learning can't help but be a part of those things.