what does it mean to value what kids value?

[Meredith]

Fawn asked this in response to the description of radical unschooling here and it seemed like a great topic that people might have a lot to say on:

 

I need better clarification on Value what they Value.

I don't even learn about about stuff my husband values if I hate it. So, I don't think I should have to value what my kid values if I hate world of war craft.
I don't force MY food on them. I don't force my love of reading on them. So, Why should I let them force things I deplore on me. Can they still take me for who I am?

Or is this more of I should love them to be interested in watching some history with them on maybe the civil war (which I can stand) but I don't have to delve into their interest in baseball when I will never love it.
Can I value what they value when we find things of similar interest? Can I value that they will hate things I am into and I not force it on them and can they value something and not expect Mom to like it?

Value what they value?
Aren't we suppose to respect people as individuals? I should be able to let my kids know I have feelings And while I won't punish them if they EVER do pot that I still don't approve. Can't I have the right as a person to not like and even look down on something?

[Sarah S.]

Sylvia Toyama said:

My difficulty with TCS as it relates to unschooling and being a Mom is that, in my opinion -- and home -- children's needs aren't on the same level with parents' needs.  Children's needs are MORE important to me, simply by virtue of the fact that they are children. Sure, my needs for sleep and food are important, but a Mom's *need* to not be required to sit thru a game or activity she doesn't enjoy?  I just don't get how that takes children seriously.

Are you under the impression that TCS advocates this? TCS advocates looking for mutually agreeable solutions, but if one can't be found, then the child's wants should take priority.

As to the rarity of people actually wanting completely opposite things, as a mother of three children with vastly different social needs and personalities, I can tell you they often have completely opposite desires which, if fulfilled, would require me to be in two (or three) places at one time.  Thankfully, as they get older these situations are easier to negotiate.

In my experience, looking at the situation as three people with completely different desires that can't all possibly be fulfilled leads to stuck-ness and disappointment. I think it works better to look at these as starting points to finding solutions that will allow everyone to have what he wants. People rarely want just one thing, really, once we're past infancy at least. If you're a good parent, you'll want your child to be happy... and children who have good, strong, healthy relationships with their parents and siblings generally want their parents and siblings to be happy,too, once they get to the developmental stage that makes that possible.

So rather than looking at Lainie and her son as having completely different desires, one can look at what they really want. Does her son want to cheer when achieves something in a game, or to look on when he creates something cool? Does he want someone in the room with him, even someone not paying attention 100% of the time? Does he want someone to play the game with him? And what does Lainie want? Something to occupy some of her attention during the game? To not have to hear the game sounds? Something else? When Rain was littler she wanted me with her when we watched her tv shows but she didn't particularly care how closely I followed the show, which is good because I have a really hard time following tv shows in general. She liked to explain the jokes to me and have me watch funny parts and talk to me about some of the characters, but my general confusion about the plot was fine (in truth, I think it kind of amused her).

 

JennyStar: Feeling resentful can be a choice.  It's really helpful all around for unschooling parents to find ways to NOT be resentful in any way towards their children.

In my experience people feel resentful when they're not getting their own needs and wants met. Feeling that way can be a reminder to take care of ourselves and rethink our goals and priorities and the reasons we have them. Sometimes reminding oneself of these can remove resentment, but I think that depends on how well we've been taking care of ourselves otherwise.

A lot of the people I've seen start unschooling and then give up on it are people who have neglected to "fill their own buckets", so to speak, and then find themselves unhappy. I don't think that's being a very good model for kids, either. The people who seem to make the most successful transition to unschooling are the ones who focus on having fun together and reconnecting as a family, and on all of the family members taking the time to rediscover the things that make them happy. Everyone's bucket gets filled...

[Meredith]

In my experience people feel resentful when they're not getting their own needs and wants met. Feeling that way can be a reminder to take care of ourselves and rethink our goals and priorities and the reasons we have them.

 

Yes, that's important. Sometimes rethinking goals and priorities involves looking at assumptions we may have about how needs "should" get met, too. For instance, the idea that parents (mom and dad together) need an hour or two of "couple time" together each evening. That's a cultural norm for a lot of families, but often the same needs can be met in other ways if parents break them down a bit and look for alternative solutions to each need, rather than lumping a bunch in together.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=- Does her son want to cheer when achieves something in a game, or to look on when he creates something cool? Does he want someone in the room with him, even someone not paying attention 100% of the time? Does he want someone to play the game with him? And what does Lainie want?-=-

 

Unschooling works best when a partnership is maintained with the child's joyful learning as a goal.  If the son and mom are not a partnership, then what each wants can be in conflict more often than not. If the mother finds ways to see herself as her child's partner (some start at birth, and some have to rediscover and rebuild that partnership), there won't be so much "what does he want and what do *I* want" conflict and thought.

 

If they can fill the family's bucket rather than the mom spending so much time and energy thinking she has a bucket that's half empty, unschooling will work better.

 

[April Coburn]

I just found this discussion and wanted to say that for me this is what unschooling is all about. When we take our children's interests seriously and connect with them through that passion, we creating a bond through that sharing.

 

This has not always been easy for me. In fact, my boys seem to challenge me to accept their interests more and more every year. Once I give myself permission to let go of the fear surrounding whatever it is (and I've come to recognize these subtle negative feelings primarily as fear), I usually become just as excited about a subject as they are. This has happened with dinosaurs, video games, star wars and leggos, to name just a few things I had and initial aversion to. In embracing my children's interests, it becomes less about the subject or activity, and more about saying yes to their joy and free exploration, which is really a form of unconditional love.

[Sandra Dodd]

"saying yes to their joy and free exploration"
Nice phrase, April!

This is it. Accepting joyfully.

When a mom argues that she should NOT "have to" like what her child likes, or be interested in what her children are interested in, it reminds me of a child saying "You can make me," or "I don't have to." Sure! Peachy! We *can't* make her and she *doesn't* "have to." But... those people can't experience unschooling as I have if they insist on their own separate lives, and resist being their child's enthusiastic partner.

Many have tried to resist really relaxing deeply into unschooling. Many have gone on to other educational options. Many have relaxed, and found unschooling to be beyond their wildest dreams.

[JennyStar]

In my experience people feel resentful when they're not getting their own needs and wants met. Feeling that way can be a reminder to take care of ourselves and rethink our goals and priorities and the reasons we have them. Sometimes reminding oneself of these can remove resentment, but I think that depends on how well we've been taking care of ourselves otherwise.

That may be the underlying reason behind resentment. Feeling resentful is still a choice. Feeling lack and unfulfilled is a choice. It's a shift in perspective. Taking care of others, and the needs of others isn't mutually exclusive of taking care of ones self.

A lot of the people I've seen start unschooling and then give up on it are people who have neglected to "fill their own buckets", so to speak, and then find themselves unhappy. I don't think that's being a very good model for kids, either. The people who seem to make the most successful transition to unschooling are the ones who focus on having fun together and reconnecting as a family, and on all of the family members taking the time to rediscover the things that make them happy. Everyone's bucket gets filled...

I think you are talking about the deschooling process. My kids haven't gone to school. Our family was never disconnected in that way. We did transition to unschooling though. That was about my internal process of learning about unschooling. Since I did that, my husband eventually did it too. I've never felt resentment towards my kids. I've resented large kitchen messes, but that's because I know I'll need to get in there and away from my kids and other activities I enjoy better. However, once I make the choice to do them, I do it with happy pleasant thoughts of a clean kitchen and clean dishes and warm water and putting on a movie or chatting with one of my kids if they come into the kitchen.

Resentment is a choice. No matter what the reasons for feeling it are.

[Lainie Liberti]

Hello All,

 

Sorry I haven't chimed in until now, I finally just got a chance to read all the replies to this thread as we've been traveling and had not had reliable internet connection until now. I decided to reply here, but I realize there are so many replies after that touch on many wonderful points.

 

I just want to start off by saying the assumption that I was resentful over my son's video games is not true. I actually worked in new media for many years and even developed many games. I like video games and I'm proud of my son's choices. I simply stated I didn't like watching him play. Admitted to you all here. I also took the opportunity to be aware of what I just said, my uncomfort as an invitation to face the things that make me uncomfortable. Traveling has taught me that, but so has the unschooling process in general. Sandra's suggestion that I watch, become engaged was a suggestion I took. Also, after reading many of the comments and discussions surrounding this topic and sharing them with my son was a wonderful experience for us.

 

He played some games and I watched but suddenly there was an awareness inside of him, a sensitivity that he and I were sharing time and he was more aware and conscious of "our" time, versus just his. I am not sure how else to describe it, but as he approaches 12, his pr-teens are birthing in a new awareness about how he fits in the world, this experience just being a microcosm of that experience.

 

Anyway, wonderful discussion and just wanted to let you know, there was never any resentment on my part, but it's been a wonderful learning experience. I watch Miro's games a little more now, but through his awareness, he's asked me less and less. Perhaps it's because we've been on the road, perhaps it's because of the topics / conversations here, or perhaps it's just a coincidence. Either way, life is a constant learning for grown-ups too and the unschooling process has been one that's working for us.

Love and light from Colombia.

Lainie

 

 

JennyStar said:

In my experience people feel resentful when they're not getting their own needs and wants met. Feeling that way can be a reminder to take care of ourselves and rethink our goals and priorities and the reasons we have them. Sometimes reminding oneself of these can remove resentment, but I think that depends on how well we've been taking care of ourselves otherwise.

That may be the underlying reason behind resentment. Feeling resentful is still a choice. Feeling lack and unfulfilled is a choice. It's a shift in perspective. Taking care of others, and the needs of others isn't mutually exclusive of taking care of ones self.

A lot of the people I've seen start unschooling and then give up on it are people who have neglected to "fill their own buckets", so to speak, and then find themselves unhappy. I don't think that's being a very good model for kids, either. The people who seem to make the most successful transition to unschooling are the ones who focus on having fun together and reconnecting as a family, and on all of the family members taking the time to rediscover the things that make them happy. Everyone's bucket gets filled...

I think you are talking about the deschooling process. My kids haven't gone to school. Our family was never disconnected in that way. We did transition to unschooling though. That was about my internal process of learning about unschooling. Since I did that, my husband eventually did it too. I've never felt resentment towards my kids. I've resented large kitchen messes, but that's because I know I'll need to get in there and away from my kids and other activities I enjoy better. However, once I make the choice to do them, I do it with happy pleasant thoughts of a clean kitchen and clean dishes and warm water and putting on a movie or chatting with one of my kids if they come into the kitchen.

Resentment is a choice. No matter what the reasons for feeling it are.