WHY to help others, and how?

[Sandra Dodd]

Joyce, in response to someone else, taken totally out of context for this new topic: 

"Why should anyone be offering help they think will be harmful? Not even, I think, if the person is asking for it."

http://sandradodd.com/screwitup

That's a brainstormed list of "how to screw up unschooling," from a discussion on a discussion list elsewhere.

It was not offered with the intention of being harmful, but in fun, in jest.  When someone wants to do the opposite of what is recommended, because they're habitually defensive or just tired of "people telling them what to do" or something, that list can be a helpful tool.

I that same other discussion, someone asked a fascinating question:

"Don't you need to help me?"

DO we "need" to help other unschoolers?

[JennyStar]

I don't need to help anyone!!!! I could be a selfish person and help myself to whatever I feel is best for me. I think I'd find myself lonely! I choose to help lots of people, but mostly, I help my children and my husband. When I have the time and inclination, I help others and sometimes it happens because it gets thrown at me and I help because I'm there in the middle.

I help a lot of hurt and broken kids. It's refreshing to help parents not hurt or break their kids and I wish all parents wanted help not to do that. People who find unschooling are generally those that are already looking to NOT hurt and break their kids and it's fun to help that happen beyond damage control and onto all the beautiful things that happen because of unschooling.

[Meredith]

Its certainly not necessary to ask questions and read answers on discussion lists in order to learn about unschooling - which isn't to say that doing so isn't helpful to some people, just that there are other ways of learning.

For people who do find discussion helpful (as opposed to reading essays or some other kind of learning), some find knocking ideas around with other similarly-inclined people more helpful than asking longtime unschoolers. It's possible to learn that way because the basic principles of what supports the flow of natural learning don't change, they're based in human nature itself, and with enough time and work people can work them out for themselves. That's a sort of discussion that's more difficult to create, though - certainly its more difficult to moderate and keep on track because there is a sense of "none of us Know any more than anyone else" unless there happen to be a few big personalities who are also really committed to digging down to those basic principles.

Over time that sort of group will change, too (assuming it sticks around and stays on topic) because it will inevitably include longtime unschoolers who have more btdt stories and the same issue comes up again - do the people who don't want that go somewhere else and start another group? bump the old-timers out of the group? Its a dilemma. Its a dynamic that extends beyond unschooling, too - it pops up in anarchist discussions, spiritual discussions, feminist discussions, and real-life intentional communities (other places, too, I'm sure, but I've experienced all of those).

But aside from the problem of staying on-topic, where unschooling is concerned there's also the problem of time because kids don't stay the same and people still waffling, trying to figure out principles on their own are more likely to give in to alllll the other pressures to teach. That problem leads many people who might like to work it all out on their own to realize that just because we can figure something out all by our selves, we don't always have to. It's good to have other resources! And it is good to have the benefit of "history" as it were - that's a resource that we humans too often fail to utilize no matter how much is said and written.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-where unschooling is concerned there's also the problem of time because kids don't stay the same -=-

There's an entire array of differences and changes.

The adults (moms, usually) are different ages, have different prior knowledge, might be young with young children, or older moms with young children. Their kids are maybe babies, or schoolkids, or teens. Then no dyad of mom/kid is static, but they're changing and growing and interacting all the time the mom is figuring it out.

Anyone who has ever imagined for a moment that it was simple might want to reimagine a little. :-)

[Teresa]

Is the question more,

"Do they need help to reach their goals?" or

"Are we (and by we, I mean those who have experience) the ones to help them?" or

"Do we have some personal need or obligation to help others by giving them some possible directions to get from wherever they are now to unschooling?"

I'll try to answer in a way that wraps them together. First, I, personally, do need help learning how to radically unschool. I have a few of the books, and I read an essay or string of posts on the Web every other night or so. I might have gotten to some of the same principles sooner or later, but I don't want to wait sooner or later. I want to make the changes that feel good now. And for that, I need help.

I got my graduate degree in education, and to do that, I read quite a bit of education philosophy. I found it fascinating. Really. But I've found that information I've gotten from other unschooling parents is just as fascinating, but also more practical, and in more understandable language, and presented in a way that suggests further explanation would be available if I tried something and it didn't quite work out. So, I'd say yes, that for those who want help unschooling, it is the ones who have been there and done that who often have the most meaningful things to say.

And I can't speak to anyone's personal needs, but I have experienced before in my life stumbling onto (or maybe worked very hard at) something that has given me great joy, has improved my quality of life, and has made me feel just a little bit enlightened. And I have wanted very much to share this knowledge or this idea or what have you. (A recent one was using pancake batter as batter for chicken tenders. Hallelujah! I want to stop people on the streets and share.) And I'm so thankful that it is the passion of so many people to share knowledge of radically unschooling, for this change is challenging to my long-standing patterns, and I can't believe that y'all don't tire of answering questions and kicking around ideas, but I'm sure glad you don't!

[Sandra Dodd]

I think the question was, when Joyce and I had talked about wanting to help people's kids have rich unschooled lives, the mom said (I read whiningly, but I could have read wrong) "Don't you need to help me?"

It's not a need of Joyce's or mine, to help that one particular human. She had repeatedly insulted me. Do I have a personal need to help her? Does unschooling entail "the need" for each individual mom to receive all the free, personalized help she requests? In someone's dreams, perhaps.

Honestly... I suspect that sometimes when people come from church--Christian families used to "joining" a church, and used to churches fairly guaranteeing that people will be visited in the hospital, will have a place for weddings and funerals (including a hall with a kitchen), and that anyone who wants counseling can have it, anytime of the week--they expect that if they "join" unschooling that they are entitled to all those kinds of services, too.

[Joyce Fetteroll]

*** I read whiningly, but I could have read wrong ***

When I first saw the sentence it jumped out as a whine but I realized it was a response to my saying the aim was to help children. So the question was basically don't the moms have to be helped in order to help the kids.

The whole dynamic of offering and accepting free help is a weird one, an uncomfortable mix of power and powerlessness. The power to ask for what you need but powerless in what you get in return. Add in a mama bear protecting her kids while burdened by baggage she's juggling without realizing it, things can hit some awful bumps!