words, meanings, "semantics"

[Sandra Dodd]

"The reason several words can mean the same thing is because not everyone hears the same thing when a particular word is used."

I've heard it said that there are no words in English that mean the same thing--that if we don't use both of them for different purposes or nuances, we drop one.

The quote above is from another topic, and I just wanted to use it as a springboard to discuss the occasional charge of "just semantics." I've been told "that's just semantics" about the difference between teaching oneself and learning. I've been told "that's just semantics" about the difference between rules and principles. I've been told by people I know in person and know to be intelligent and verbal that principles and rules are the same thing.

When people tune instruments, they might both be playing an A, but one is slightly higher within the range of vibrations than the other, and the musicians know they're out of tune.

When an artist goes through his tubes of "yellow," there might be fifteen different shades, and he probably only calls one or two of them "yellow." I might not know the difference, but he will.

[Sylvia Toyama]

I've heard it said that there are no words in English that mean the same thing--that if we don't use both of them for different purposes or nuances, we drop one.

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Big and large come to mind. Those two are synonyms, defined as: a word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language, as joyful, elated, glad.

[Schuyler Waynforth]

This reminded me of something Rue wrote at her blog last month. It isn't about two words it's about how one word can be changed by the perspective of the speaker and of the listener.

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I recently watched To Be and To Have, a documentary about a one room school in rural France. The teacher is obviously well-intentioned and seems to care very much about the children he's responsible for on a day-to-day basis.

Me being me, though, I was struck most by how alive the children seem when they are doing something meaningful and how dramatically they shrink into themselves when forced to do something they have no interest in.

There's a heartbreaking scene where a very tiny boy visiting the school cries for his mama, but the quieter heartbreak of another boy being made to color was equally disturbing to me.

The casual quality of this conversation was also very striking for me:

Student: We don’t give the orders, you give them sir.

Another Student: Yes, but when we grow up, we’ll order our children around.

Teacher: Exactly! Maybe you’ll be a teacher one day too. You’ll order your pupils around. Would you like that?


I remember wondering when I was a kid if I saw the same thing other people did when we saw a color. As time has passed I've come to wonder more and more if I see the same thing other people do when we see a child.

[Candy Cook]

Well, I've been recently listening to some music I liked as a young teenager. Now, those same songs have completely different meanings to me. It's like hearing a new song. I remember feeling the same way about the Mary Poppins movie. As a child, the movie was about something totally different than when I watched it again as an adult and a momma. It was like an entirely different movie. So, meanings change between not only different people.. but different moments in their lives.

[Sandra Dodd]

I think that's not the meanings of individual words, but a more mature understanding of social interactions, and a new perspective.

I've read some novels I read when I was a kid and the characters were older than I was. When I re-read them as people younger than I am, and again later as someone old enough to identify with their parents and feel how their parents might have felt, it's a whole 'nother thing!

[Gil]

One of my favorite words is 'cleave' - meaning both itself and its opposite.

The duality is something to behold :)

[Hope]

I think that often when people say "that's just semantics" what they really mean is that there is a misunderstanding because you both mean the same thing but have chosen a different word to express it. I can say that we impart principles instead of rules or vice versa but the way this is carried out in my family is more important than the word I choose when implementing.

I remember a debate at another forum about "seeking joy" and "pursuing happiness". Everyone had strong ideas about which was more important and more real, joy or happiness. It wasn't until three or so pages of discussion that we realized that everyone was agreeing that the most important thing was the inner peace and tranquility experienced even when things on the surface are falling apart. We MEANT the same thing but spent a lot of time debating the semantics.

So, I guess sometimes it is "just semantics" if you're talking about the LABEL but it is never "just semantics" when you're talking about the IDEA.

[Sandra Dodd]

True.
If people agree afterwards that "joy" and "happiness" were different words for what they were all, in that conversation, talking about, then it was just semantics that time.

I object to "just semantics" being used as a "la la la I'm not listening" phrase in a discussion. :-)

I'm not a painter, but if I said that crimson and vermillion were both just "red" and so to talk about a difference was just semantics, they wouldn't talk to me much after that. If someone says that to 'nitpick' about the difference between teaching and facilitating learning is just semantics, it's an opinion that has little value in a discussion of learning.

In a set like "joyful, elated, glad" I could discuss the different meanings as painters could talk about different shades of a color, but not everyone paints with words.

Sandra

[Hope]

True, if someone is using the phrase in a dismissive way then it can be frustrating.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-It is not something that is important to everyone so I don't expect them to get those nuances and I don't expect them to care. I may wish they did but the sad reality is that education is not as important as some people claim.-=-

I don't understand the last part, about "education." Unschooling is about learning, not about "education."

-=-This leads me to wonder what the point of arguing over terms with someone is. If they truly want to learn something, then they will listen with an open mind and consider what is being said. If this is the case, then great. If not, what is the point of trying to teach somebody something that has no relevance to them personally? It is all very situational and contextual.-=-

When the situation and context involves unschooling, and when dozens or hundreds of people are reading without posting, the point is clarity.

[Sandra Dodd]

-=-The problem was with the way I was defining words. I was defining them in the traditional sense rather than in the unschooling sense.-=-

I don't think unschoolers are using words in other than their plain sense. Education is done by one person to another. Learning is not.

-= As I type this and read and re-read ad nauseum-=-

We're all volunteers. If it's making you sick, don't do it.

-=-Is the target audience just unschoolers or is it everyone? I am new to embracing the unschooling philosophy.-=-

Unschoolers and those who want to know more about unschooling. Not "everyone."

-=-...you may or may not understand what I am trying to say. Is it because of the words that I chose or is it because we are coming from two unique perspectives?-=-

Are those the only two choices?

If I write as clearly as I can and someone even from the same perspective doesn't understand me, maybe I'm not a good writer. Maybe I don't understand clearly what I'm trying to convey. Maybe the other person isn't from another perspective, but isn't a very good reader, or is horribly distracted or agitated or distraught. Maybe I'm in a hurry and not writing as clearly as I could. Maybe the reader is over-confident, cocky and isn't reading carefully out of disdain for the topic or for me. All kinds of things can keep someone from understanding something.

[Meredith]

"People that are already entrenched in unschooling probably already know how terms are used and which terms to avoid."

Everyone who reads on an unschooling site or list isn't "entrenched" though. For many people, deschooling involves pulling apart the ideas about learning and teaching - most parents come to unschooling asking "how do I teach xyz?" Chatting with my Aunt this morning, she asked me "isn't it intimidating that your kids expect you to know everything?" She's still thinking in terms of teaching.

" My kids are educated but they achieved it through learning."

Many kids who are being or have been unschooled have a different relationship with the words teaching and education than their parents. Its mainly parents who need to ponder what we mean by those things so we aren't trying to "own" our kids learning, and our kids don't feel a need to shrug off their real accomplishments as "I had good teachers". Unschooled kids can say "so-and-so taught me this" without that added baggage. Kids who come to unschooling later will need to deschool and learn to "own" their own learning before they can do that, though.

"One of the things that I get caught up on is the fact that I have a teaching degree and I help teach a college class. To unschool my children almost seems like I am cheating. :-) It becomes hard to reconcile the two conflicting worlds so I find myself using some words interchangeably in order to bridge the two worlds."

When I was first learning about unschooling I was also studying Montessori, which uses the word "teach" consciously to mean "facilitate learning". They actively use the word differently than its usual definition. I learned to sort-of translate back and forth at first, but over time found it was easier to drop the word "teach" entirely because of its vagueness. Teaching can be used to mean modeling and being a resource and consultant and facilitator, but why complicate things by using a word that means all of that, plus? I've found it more helpful to think about what I mean in more specific terms. Say model when I mean model, say "have a casual conversation around the tv" when that's what really happens in my home. It gives a far better idea of what unschooling "looks like" when I do that, rather than falling back on a broad term like "teach".

Another example is the word "respect". It has a host of meanings and connotations, especially where the relationship between children and adults is concerned. So oftentimes I find it easier to use more specific words, even if it means being wordier as a result.

[bLISs]

sandra, i think THIS is WHY i use SO MANY words when i write in attempt to be understood by others. i sure can be quite the prolific writer. i am working on learning to summarize my thoughts...thank you for posting this thread.

i was going to post a thread about referring to ourselves as "unschoolers". i myself would prefer referring to my family's lifestyle as "free learners" or "life learners". i'd love to know what other families refer to their lives lived as unschoolers...especially in relation to how they respond when others ask about their educational lives.

i'm going to have to search for your trip to the UK conference...i want to hear all about your experience there.