What is appropriate involvement in schoolwork and school?

[Heather (in NY)]

Reading the Family Handbook given to us this week at my son's charter school orientation, I see this section:

"Supporting Success: Parent involvement in the Charter School is essential to creating an effective school community in which all students succeed. At the Charter School, parents will be responsible for:

CREATING AN EFFECTIVE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT AT HOME.(Their capitals, not mine)
Set a schedule and structure to make sure your student completes his work. Limit TV time. Keep book and other reading materials available and set aside a time to read each day."

OK. I want to go and give these people a lecture about trusting children and tell them exactly what I plan to do - which is to help my son with this if and when he asks. I might ask him ahead of time what type of help he will need, or remind him that he can ask me for this type of help. (BTW, this is a young person who voluntarily practiced his instrument for up to 3 hours per day, and attending countless rehearsals, performances, and lessons for the last few years, with reminders when he asked for them, and help when he wanted it.)

I think that that might not be a good idea. I think that biting my tongue about most issues and waiting to see what happens might work better. It is going to be hard.

From Sandra's Public School on Your Own Terms:

(When I called my sister to read this to her for verification, she asked me to add that if she had it to do over she wouldn’t be so honest as to announce to the principal, “School is optional at our house.” She advises you to make assorted excuses like the other parents do.) http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice

It is very tempting to let my son's "crew leader" - the charter school's version of a guidance counselor know exactly what I think about this policy and my approach to homework - which is to "let" my son decide when and if to do his homework and if and how his parents will be involved in the process. And that school is optional- every single day. Maybe not a good idea at this point.

Anyone have experience with this - how has being involved or not worked for you with your child's homework or attendance?

Thanks!

Heather (in NY)

BTW I think setting aside a time to read everyday is a great idea- for me! Is that what they mean?

[Nance Confer]

Yep. We got the same lecture when DD decided to go to 9th grade this year. I'm all for supporting her in her decision but I'm not the homework police and screw them on their "family values" TV, etc., guidelines.

So far I have helped her when asked and otherwise she does what she wants.

And her attitude is that there really isn't any point to her going if she's not going to do her best. She knows what that is and will do what she chooses. She really didn't get the need for most of the lectures about doing your reading and assigned work -- who wouldn't?

We talked about people who are there by choice and those who are not and how that can effect your attitude.

Should be an interesting year. :)

So far, I have been to one Open House. The turnout was pathetic. I know people work, etc. I know it's hard. But out of 4 blocks (what we used to call classes :) ) one block had about 6 parents (out of 33 students, I think the teacher said) and that was the largest turnout. Must be discouraging for the teachers.

Nance

[Jody Feavearyear]

I think my daughter will automatically "set aside a time to read each day", she does that already (and the time typically amounts to several hours!). :)

Our challenge will be that my daughter gets quite anxious about homework (as per our brief 6 week experiment with public high school last fall) and she wants to do it (she REALLY does not want to "break any rules") but she sometimes doesn't like doing it. And she gets really upset if there is too much or if she does not understand it or if it requires too much physical writing (a big challenge for her). We solved the physical writing part by having her dictate to me and I did the writing.

Reminds me that I have to contact them on Monday about the writing part. She is already asking if she can have a laptop in the classroom for the writing assignments.

[eintob]

I have three kids: ds16, dd9 and ds6. Ds16 has been homeschooled since he was 7. Last year he decided he wanted to try high school. I found him a smallish charter school with a focus on involvement in the business community. He hated the whole homework thing and only passed half his classes as a result of choosing not to do it. He did not return there this year. My dd9 became interested in trying school as a result and I was able to get her into a very small charter school for this year. I warned her what would be expected and that if she wanted to try it she'd have to "play the game by their rules". Unfortunately, even though they said they didn't "believe" in assigning homework, she has had homework nearly every day because she is behind in her math skills. Rather than let her proceed at her own pace (like they said all their kids do) she is being pushed to "catch up". She hates the homework, she hates the arbitrary rules, she hates not being able to go on family outings whenever she wants...but not enough to leave. Since I really detest school as whole, it's really hard for me not to try and convince her to quit. What she wants is me to support her desire...not undermine her desire by going on and on about how stupid the game is (not that you are doing that). Her teacher's know that she has always been homeschooled and we've already had one meeting with two of her teachers to explain that some of their expectations aren't keeping in mind that she is still learning the rules of how school is done.

But I don't tell them that we have told her that school is optional, that I detest their system, that I don't help her with projects or homework unless she specifically requests my assistance. They don't need to know any of that. Her school is pretty unusual (it is officially the "Greenest School in America") and everyone, including parents, are pretty flexible and open-minded and they are really big on "community". I think they would be disappointed to hear that I believe what I do but they would find a way to put a positive spin on it I suspect.

[Nance Confer]

I have no interest in whether the school personnel are happy or unhappy with whatever DD ultimately decides. It's all her, all the time.

When she first talked about going, she asked if she could leave after the first semester if she didn't like it. I told her she could leave after the first hour! :) That seemed to put her at ease.

I think the big issue will be whether DD has enough time for school and homework and her acting classes. She just got accepted into two classes -- through the generosity of the school owner, we sure couldn't afford it without that! So that's two nights a week and all the extra rehearsals, like today they have rehearsal from 12-5.

We'll see. She was tired the first week -- the early mornings are just awful -- but we talked and she agreed she wanted to give it a fair trial and really see what it's like. She said she'll give it two weeks, then decide.

So far, the school people have been very nice and helpful, even if things were a little confused the first few days. And the classwork is not difficult. Really very easy, imo, and DD doesn't seem to be struggling with any of it except for Algebra a little. It's more a matter of having enough time during the day.

Nance

[Heather (in NY)]

I think my son's school will have fairly high parent involvement. I am holding back though on getting involved- though I will attend events when it is requested. I go back and forth between wanting to be supportive of their efforts(it is a brand new school) and really feeling a little sick about everything I am seeing and reading.

I think it is best for my son that I don't rant and rave about how ridiculous the whole idea of school seems to me, let alone the particulars of this school. I am just having trouble wrapping my head around a lot of it. I know that they have to operate under certain guidelines by law, but the whole premise just seems disrespectful. That the adults know better than the children what will be beneficial and interesting to learn. I think that the kids will have a lot of input and a lot of choice, compared to a regular public school, but will have very little input and choice compared to a radical unschooling life.

Of course, I know that my son is informed about what it is that he is entering into, and he realizes that there are going to be parts that he may enjoy less than other parts.

Already he is feeling angry about the dress code! I am sure this year will have many many interesting discussions! A lot of learning going on about how the world is "out there".

[Heather (in NY)]

"But I don't tell them that we have told her that school is optional, that I detest their system, that I don't help her with projects or homework unless she specifically requests my assistance. They don't need to know any of that. Her school is pretty unusual (it is officially the "Greenest School in America") and everyone, including parents, are pretty flexible and open-minded and they are really big on "community". I think they would be disappointed to hear that I believe what I do but they would find a way to put a positive spin on it I suspect."

Sounds a little similar to the school my son, and Jody's daughter are attending, which has a sustainability mission and is also emphasizing community. OK- sounds good. The verdict is still out.

And my son doesn't want to hear anything negative right now, so I will respect that. And I do trust him make his own decision about whether it is right for him or not.

I am just truly skeptical that any institution can truly meet the needs of individuals(another part of this school's mission). Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised!

[Heather (in NY)]

Jody Feavearyear said:

Our challenge will be that my daughter gets quite anxious about homework (as per our brief 6 week experiment with public high school last fall) and she wants to do it (she REALLY does not want to "break any rules") but she sometimes doesn't like doing it.

Reminds me that I have to contact them on Monday about the writing part. She is already asking if she can have a laptop in the classroom for the writing assignments.

My son is going to have difficulty with taking notes, too. Though we don't have a laptop right now. He can write ok, but slowly. Let me know what you find out.

He also doesn't like breaking rules - but can get really angry when he doesn't agree with them! Having a lot of rules and requirements in a situation that don't make sense (to him- may be quite sensible to adults) quickly leads to his not wanting to go back. Though he has decided to stick with it for at least a trimester- to give it a fair chance. He already has started to get a little upset about a couple of the behavior rules I read to him. He hasn't read through the entire handbook yet. I myself felt a little sick to my stomach after reading the whole thing. Certainly the most long term scheduled and rule governed situation he has ever been in, though he has done many music events through schools, and this school may be slightly more relaxed than a typical public school.

[Heather (in NY)]

Nance Confer said:

I have no interest in whether the school personnel are happy or unhappy with whatever DD ultimately decides. It's all her, all the time.
When she first talked about going, she asked if she could leave after the first semester if she didn't like it. I told her she could leave after the first hour! :) That seemed to put her at ease.
I think the big issue will be whether DD has enough time for school and homework and her acting classes.
Nance

Yes, I agree. I am not going to be concerned at all with what the school thinks if it comes to withdrawing before the year is up, or not following a rule, or not meeting a requirement. I like that - it IS all him, all the time. If he doesn't want to go to school in the morning,or follow a rule, or do homework, we'll talk about it, but the decision is his. This does make it simpler - to just leave all the decisions about what he and I do in relation to the school up to him in the end.

I guess after a certain point though it may be better from a legal standpoint to withdraw rather than miss too many days. That will be something we'll talk about - I need to look into that.

And he could leave after the first hour! Though I think he may just get angry if I remind him of that. He says- I am not a quitter. Which is okay - but then when it is really time to quit it can be a really long and drawn out process - but that is just him and what he goes through. I kind of dread that- as it is pretty intense and painful for him. He just went through this over the summer deciding to discontinue lessons with a particular music teacher that were very structured. The teacher was disappointed and sad to see him go, and it took my son MONTHS himself to reach a decision after first thinking he might want to stop. I worry a little bit about this- if he does reach a point where leaving school is a consideration - he might stick with it for quite a long time while being quite unhappy and having a lot of difficulty meeting the requirements and having the process of getting up and deciding to go every day be really wrenching.

And we are also going to have a huge issue with time- he has a part time job, and wants to continue to be involved with various sports, and has in the past been very involved with music- lots of groups and lessons and performances. Though this is shifting - and with school he will just not be able to do as much.

[AnnC]

I appreciate reading here about involvement in the school. I know I'll need alot of support to keep the focus on my daughter and not get overwhelmed myself with the school rules, etc. It feels so deep in me, still, the knee jerk response to school authority. It was helpful to re-read Sandra's school choice essay and her reminder to "detach" from school even with a son or daughter attending. My daughter has tried school out once before, she went from Sept. until January and then stopped going. She seems pretty determined, tho, to be part of a high school.

I've decided for the time being to really support her on the home front, but to basically stay away from the school itself, unless, of course if dd wants me there for some reason. I'm going to ask her other mother to interact with the school face to face, which she's fine to do.

-Ann

Heather (in NY) said:

Nance Confer said:

I have no interest in whether the school personnel are happy or unhappy with whatever DD ultimately decides. It's all her, all the time.
When she first talked about going, she asked if she could leave after the first semester if she didn't like it. I told her she could leave after the first hour! :) That seemed to put her at ease.
I think the big issue will be whether DD has enough time for school and homework and her acting classes.
Nance

Yes, I agree. I am not going to be concerned at all with what the school thinks if it comes to withdrawing before the year is up, or not following a rule, or not meeting a requirement. I like that - it IS all him, all the time. If he doesn't want to go to school in the morning,or follow a rule, or do homework, we'll talk about it, but the decision is his. This does make it simpler - to just leave all the decisions about what he and I do in relation to the school up to him in the end.

I guess after a certain point though it may be better from a legal standpoint to withdraw rather than miss too many days. That will be something we'll talk about - I need to look into that.

And he could leave after the first hour! Though I think he may just get angry if I remind him of that. He says- I am not a quitter. Which is okay - but then when it is really time to quit it can be a really long and drawn out process - but that is just him and what he goes through. I kind of dread that- as it is pretty intense and painful for him. He just went through this over the summer deciding to discontinue lessons with a particular music teacher that were very structured. The teacher was disappointed and sad to see him go, and it took my son MONTHS himself to reach a decision after first thinking he might want to stop. I worry a little bit about this- if he does reach a point where leaving school is a consideration - he might stick with it for quite a long time while being quite unhappy and having a lot of difficulty meeting the requirements and having the process of getting up and deciding to go every day be really wrenching.

And we are also going to have a huge issue with time- he has a part time job, and wants to continue to be involved with various sports, and has in the past been very involved with music- lots of groups and lessons and performances. Though this is shifting - and with school he will just not be able to do as much.

[Heather (in NY)]

Ann Carlson said:

I know I'll need alot of support to keep the focus on my daughter and not get overwhelmed myself with the school rules, etc. It feels so deep in me, still, the knee jerk response to school authority.

Yeah, I know what you mean - my husband and I both have this reaction. My son also seems to feel pretty angry when rules don't make sense. Maybe it is a natural reaction from a person who has a lot of freedom. My husband and I both have our own businesses, and the kids have never been in school until now. We all have a lot of freedom and to be told what to do or be punished seems really odd, and wrong. It is pretty apparent that there are better ways for people to get what they want than rules and punishments.

Anyway - we have talked a lot about what it means to sign up for something like this- it is a package deal - and if you break their rules you will be facing their consequences - at least until you choose to leave the situation.

[AnnC]

Good morning: My dd left for her first day of high school this morning. She was so nervous, she woke up at 4 am. We ate breakfast together, and had a cup of tea. I walked her to the train, told her I loved her, and to "go get 'em". Then I walked away and walked the dog. Sigh.

I feel wistful, regretful, and proud of her, too. She's exploring something she's been interested and curious about for some time. I'm grateful she's following her heart right now, even if it means school uniforms, big text books, and what feels to me like a very rigid schedule(!). But her choice to explore her curiosity is at the heart of unschooling and that's what she's doing.

I liked what I read recently - "treat it (school) like a TV show you don't much like" My goal is to listen attentively and support HER and keep the actual institution at arm's length.

Ahhhh. Well, off to an estate sale with my twin guys, still unschooling and happy as clams.

[Heather (in NY)]

Ann Carlson said:

I liked what I read recently - "treat it (school) like a TV show you don't much like" My goal is to listen attentively and support HER and keep the actual institution at arm's length.

Hi Ann-

I like that too. That helps to think of it that way. I can appreciate and enjoy my child's interest in something without actually appreciating and enjoying the actual thing. Though one often leads to another. I never really liked jazz for instance, before my son started playing it, and my daughter has gotten me into some TV shows I would never have watched - Buffy, for example.

My son had his first day yesterday, and was less than impressed. He felt that there was a lot of wasted time. He wants me to see if he is allowed to skip the last period of the day, which is sort of an extra-curricular period. He already has enough of his own "extra-curricular" stuff to do! He came home yesterday, played some really loud electric guitar for a while, then took off to go skateboarding,came back and did some pull-ups and pilates. Anyway- I did remind him that he could stop going to school anytime he wanted too, though it might not be a good idea just to walk out in the middle of the school day. He did appreciate the reminder.

This is very interesting! It is cool to see him learn first hand something I have thought for a long time about school environments. There is just an inefficiency due to the class sizes being what they are that leads to lots of waiting and boredom. Before you even really get started on the content.

My daughter and I went to breakfast today, a doctors appointment, to exchange some shoes, and are going to do some glass painting and maybe a bike ride. I think she is enjoying having me to herself. Yesterday she did went on a bike ride, picnic, and shopping spree(resulting in the exchange of shoes, today) with her cousins, whose first day of school is today. Last year this time was pretty miserable for her, as she was feeling very left out when they both went to middle school together. This year she seems quite content to stay home.

Heather