the network for radical unschooling families

Tell us your story

Greg (dh) & I have been unconventional for a long time. When we were first married we KNEW we did not want to do the 9-5 forever. So we set out on our journey to have our own business, but there was no one to help us, there was no one to guide us in money. We did not learn about money in school and we did not have parents who helped us learn about money. So we did not have a good plan for our business, we used credit cards (and not the right way either). But we tried! And we tried and we tried. We are young and have learned many lessons the hard way. And we are still trying to clean up from those lessons, but we are not giving up. We want so bad for Greg to be able to enjoy this lifestyle. We have a lot to tell about this story of our life, but I will leave it at this for now :)

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Permalink Reply by Joni Zander on August 17, 2008 at 5:10pm

Ah, interesting group, Brenda!

This is us - financially free. We've always lived below our income level and saved, saved, saved. We haven't lived a life of deprivation, just thrift. Well, three years ago dh retired early.

Part of our strategy has been, and still is, to never pay interest on credit cards - we use them for everything, but we only use them when we know we have the cash to pay the entire bill each and every month. If we don't, we don't buy. The only thing we've ever borrowed money for are our houses (we've moved a lot), and we pay them off as quickly as possible.

Living debt free is an amazingly comfortable life style.

We did both learn these skills from our parents. DH's parents were both teachers and retired early at the age of 50 after raising four kids and putting them all through college - and have all the money they need to travel and do what they want. All from living debt free and saving. Neither of us are from wealthy families - just intelligent families (especially where money is concerned).

Permalink Reply by Brenda on August 18, 2008 at 10:29am

Hi Joni,

That is GREAT, that your dh was able to retire early! I think it was a BIG thing not having anyone help us learn about money. My kids are more money savvy at their ages, than I was when I moved out of the house. So now what do you guys do to earn a living?
We have learned so much and keep on learning about money, we love to talk about money with people, even though most people seem uncomfortable with it.
A couple of years ago we got into a mortgage and the broker tricked us and the realtor played on our emotions. We got into a 2 yr arm. Needless to say when it came time to adjust our monthly pmnts were going to go up about $700 (yikes!!!!) So we had gotten foreclosed on. BUT with this came a HUGE learning experience about real estate and we are very interested in REI! We have actually started trying to help people who got into the same mess we did. It is amazing how many people got into that mess (of being upside down in their mortgage and having an arm). So we are taking the good and not looking at what it has done to our credit. But we are working on fixing it. We are hoping that by learning/doing more about REI that Greg will eventually be able to quit his daytime job so that we can focus on it and he can be home with us more :)

Permalink Reply by Katherine on August 18, 2008 at 10:00pm

Yes I just think it's atrocious that Brian is away from the family sooooo much --- long long hours. I say "Look here hun... there's this wonderful life we (mother and kids) are living. Isn't it cool?!" Pan to Brian after a long weary day at work barely able to respond "Huh?" And the guy is stuck in the daily grind. Ugh. We want to change that.

I heard a great program on NPR a few years ago about staying debt free and living well by thrift. I love thrift stores (and the word "thrift" too .. a proactive word, and it's so much better than thinking you're poor if you don't have the latest). The NPR segment sounded a lot like what Joni Zander is talking about. I have a book called the Frugal Gazette. I could really stand to read it.

Other than that I would love to get to a place where the whole family is together the majority of the time. My dream is to live near likeminded folks who like being near the earth too. A cob house is a long time goal of mine.

Thanks for having this group.

Permalink Reply by Brenda on August 19, 2008 at 11:23am

I know what you mean about your hubby!!! Greg soooo badly wants to be apart of this life we have instead of putting in hours at the J.O.B. (just over broke, lol) because even when he is not there his mind still is.

Permalink Reply by EL on August 19, 2008 at 9:59pm

Ha! Now this is my kind of unschoolers!

What led me to reject schooling was having already rejected jobbing years before. For example what senese does it make sitting in a classroom suffering through spelling or math when you snarging well know it already just because, well, that's what you do. Children sit in classrooms, it's just what's done for cumb's sake.

I had already arrived at the conclusion that sitting through a "job" week in week out, through months and years, worlds without end, amen, when I didn't really need or want any more money was an insane waste of one's life. So the concept of unschooling fell on fertile ground.

Make no mistake, I work like the Devil to provide for my family's needs. But I do it here at home with my children by my side. Moreover, once those needs are met, that's it! Wainropes and oxen could not compel me to waste another minute enslaved to the pursuit of Caesar's coin.

The last time I was an employee was more than twenty-one years ago. Of all the un-lessons I want my children to see, this one is the most important.

Permalink Reply by Brenda on August 20, 2008 at 12:02pm

Hi EL that is great! This is exactly what we want to help our kids with!! Money is a big deal in the US and it is something they/we need for our entire lives, so we want to work on a way that they/us can continue doing what they love and earning a living. It is exciting to me to think that all of these unschooled kids will not be stuck with the mindset of having to go to a day job (unless they want to).
So what do you do to earn a living for your family? And how do the kids help?

Permalink Reply by EL on August 20, 2008 at 5:31pm

Brenda, I do wonder how many people trudge off to a 9 to 5 cubicle dwelling existence (or equivalent) do so because, like the academic side of unschooling, they just don't see any other way. I have to admit that a great wheel in the mind has to turn before this logical extension of unschooling makes sense.

So when you ask what I do to earn a living, my mind balks at the question. I am unused to thinking of it in those terms. First we operate on a direct use economyas much as is possible. That is, we try to produce as much of our needs as we can without money changing hands. For example, we built our house and so did not have to earn money to pay for the labor. Not only did this keep us out of debt, but the children (all below the age of 10 at the time) got to materially participate in every phase of the project, measuring and marking boards, reckoning angles, mixing mortar, etc. House construction will never be a foreign thing to them.

But for cash, for rendering unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, we do a variety of things. The most profitable right now is our lutherie business, which see:

www.FolcHarp.com

I could buy the tuning pins, string shoes, and toggles, but why waste the opportunity? Instead I set up elder son in his own business of making them for me and from there he branches out to selling them to other makers. In the process he has learned about all sorts of metals, etching, acid finishing, and all and sundry information that goes along with that. One of my daughters, very skilled in sewing, is collaborating with her grandmother to make the cases for the instruments, gig bags as it were.

By the time they reach their majority, I hope they are well established in their own enterprises and are little fascinated by the prospects of working for da man.

The thing, says I, is to emphasize that what a person does for money is not what they are. I do a variety of things. I hire out to help people with timber construction projects, manage their honey bee apiaries, and in the past few years I've swept floors and pitched hay for pay. No work is either beyond my capacity nor beneath my dignity. Yet none of those this is who I am.

Next I hope to instill in the children that what you want to do (in day to day life, not 'do' in the sense of what do you do (for a living)) determines how much money you will want to pursue and not the other way around. The other way around is the norm, grub for as much money as possible and then, since you were trapped there for 40 or 60 or 80 hours a week, once you are loose go out and purchase as big a life as you can. Rather we say, we need to pay the taxes, insurance, some staples, etc. and we'd like to have a party and buy new Wii game, and add some to the savings. How much money would all that take? What's our plan for getting that? And once that's done, let's party and to the Devil with earning more for the sake of earning more. This difference is stark and it is pivotal.

Also we try to keep up the de-indoctrination against the notion that money is real. In the schooling world children are taught that the highest goal is to strive for token rewards (getting grades) and this then translates to industry's advantage as an continued preoccupation to gain token rewards (money, paycheck). The more's the better, the sky's the limit! With this mindset, you can never deep down say "Enough!" But when the emphasis is switched from the token to the real, enough is indeed possible. That is, as soon as the modest coffers are filled, the creel is full, the meal bin is full, the larder is full .... why would we want to waste our life and time grubbing for more?

Mostly I'd want to say that it can be done, it is being done.

And my undying admiration to those that see their way to it!

Permalink Reply by Brenda on August 21, 2008 at 11:16am

EL, THANK YOU so much for taking the time to write that out!! I love your/your families mindset! This is where we want to be, since we did not start out there, we are trying very hard to climb out of the hole we dug ourselves into and we are getting there we have goals that we want to reach. We have to clean this mess up first before we can move forward with other things. Fortunately Greg's j.o.b pays enough to help us through it (and eventually over come our situation), however he hates his j.o.b so this really sucks! It is not good for him to go to a place he hates day in and day out. That is why we are keeping our mind open to possibilities (and why i started this group, to see how others do it:)
It is very difficult knowing what we know now, wishing we would have known it then so we would not have gotten in the situation. But we have learned and are showing our kids what NOT to do. Jazmin (10) can not believe we are still paying for things that we bought on credit cards almost 9 years ago for a business we tried then. She is BLOWN away at that. And does not understand why on earth we would have done that (neither do we, now that we get it).

Your harps are very beautiful! And I think it is wonderful how you helped set up your son's business! I also think it is neat how you built your own home, this is something that interests me a lot.
I agree that you are not your job, I guess I did not word that right. Which is a big thing that we are workig through with Greg and his job.

Permalink Reply by lydia on August 23, 2008 at 5:24am

Hello,
Jumping in here to share the dream! Just a year or so ago, I decided I wanted to be debt free and told my husband and he was thrilled that I was determined and planning this way. My husband has never fit the 9-5 mold anyway, he is an artist by nature and needs to be free from all that. Years ago I begged him to quit his job, he did and turned his already ebay hobby into our main form of income. He wrestles from time to time with identifying himself with "career" because he is the only one in his family that doesn't have a career that is "acceptable" in this day's standards. UGH! Anyway, we hope to be out of debt in less than 5 years. We aren't sure how we will get there yet, but we continue to only buy what we need and not go into further debt.
We are fans of thrift stores as well, but we are more into auctions. Auctions make it so easy to furnish a home! And, you can buy deals and sell 'em for more what they are worth, on Craig's List, yard sales or ebay. We tried to buy new furniture this past fall and did, and it was a big mistake, we spent too much even though we shopped and shopped around.....anyway, needless to say, we like our simple thrift auction funk!!!
I like living simply, I like not having tons of stuff, it's freeing.....sometimes I think I want bigger, better and more.....but the truth is I don't......sometimes it is tough living in this consumer driven culture. I know in other countries people do not allow themselves to go into debt period, they save and build a little bit of their home til the money runs out, then they save some more and so on.....
My husband is around a lot more because of our lifestyle, he sees the kids a lot!!! We hope to purchase an RV in the next several years and travel around the country unjobbing and unschooling, heehee!!
So I am grateful to all of you for your stories and I hope to glean from you all!!!

Permalink Reply by Cheryl on August 25, 2008 at 1:37pm

Hey, it's nice to read the stories. My current path has been to to simplify while making wise financial choices. It's been a long road. I usually know what to do, but acting on my knowledge doesn't come easy, especially since I've entered the parenting and unschooling life: navigating what is important to me as a parent, unschooler and individual.

Permalink Reply by Meredith on September 7, 2008 at 5:44pm

"This is where we want to be, since we did not start out there, we are trying very hard to climb out of the hole we dug ourselves into and we are getting there we have goals that we want to reach. We have to clean this mess up first before we can move forward with other things."

This is where we are, too. George and I were both self-employed, built our own house and workshops, live so frugally we know people whose phonebills are more than our total monthly expenses. But George blew a rotator cuff and the economy crashed. Happily there's a new small business in the area and they were desperate for someone with my intensity and enthusiasm (not to mention brains and skills!). So even though I'm working ft in what's essentially a small factory, its a job I can enjoy and feel like I'm doing something valuble, supporting a small local business. And George has had time to change gears and put his energy towards his own artwork - check out www.dismalax.com if you like guitars and/or creating with reused materials.

Permalink Reply by LisaRussell on September 18, 2008 at 3:02pm

Hey- I am so glad to have found this. My husband is new to the idea of unschooling, but we've been un-jobbers our whole marriage.

Ah, I lie- I have worked outside the house for other people before, I think it's fun sometimes, I get great tips whether I'm doing hair or waitressing because I can kiss a customer's ass very well.

He's always been self-employed, though and we even ran our own business for a few years (being an employer sicks, by the way- I hated having employees, they were such kiss-asses and so STUPID- the only thing worse than depending on a boss for your income is depending on a bunch of "educated" (re; can't think-for-themselves) idiots who look to you for a paycheck)