The Work of Byron Katie and Unschooling

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Comment by Rain Fordyce on April 13, 2009 at 6:29am

Good Morning!
So nice to have this board come alive! Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.
Jennifer, No I will not tell you how to respond, I can only tell you how I feel. That is all I know.
No, I do not think of you as sarcastic at all. Only true and kind intentions and trying to be of service, as I already shared.
I think it is interesting that you thought to ask me to start a new negative group about Katie. Dissenters is an interesting word to use. Here is the definition:
dis·sent·er n.
1. One who dissents: political dissenters.
2. often Dissenter One who refuses to accept the doctrines or usages of an established or a national church, especially a Protestant who dissents from the Church of England.

According to the posts where they are thinking the school as cult training, I guess this is the perfect word to use.
Yes, if you wish not to "gossip" it is always best to follow your heart.

Jennifer, I am more than happy to keep your intention for this group. I truly did not realize my posts would be unwelcome by you. I would have welcomed someone showing this information and that is why I posted it. Sandra, Pam and Greenlee have written the same.

I hold Katie separate from The Work since, as I showed it in a previous post, it is only a tool and it is not an original idea. Gratefully, Katie made a previous more complicated idea easy to use. I appreciate her for that. Ken Keyes said it before her, and most likely someone said it before him. Maybe all the way to Confucious, lol! However we need people to create ways to bring simplicity and clear language to ideas for us all to use them! Katie did that and I will always honor her for that, even when I may not agree with other choices on her journey.

I am grateful for this fun and lively conversation! What fun! Thank you... however it is back to my work week and I will be getting down into it. Have a beautiful week everyone!

smiles and joy,
Rain

Comment by Sylvia Toyama on April 12, 2009 at 7:34pm

Sylvia, can you absolutely know that folks blithely adore, without question, their spiritual teachers? Is it really true that their devotion is blind? Can you know that they didn't do their research and that what they are devoted to isn't their own authentic path to truth?

*****
I have absolutely seen it happen. For 15 years I belonged to a religion where some members -- not most, but some -- deified the founder of that religion. They were blind to any suggestion she may not have been what was presented to them as fact, even when confronted with other well-researched facts. If they couldn't refute what was presented as contradictory fact, they attempted to explain it away in very circular arguments.

*****
Because, in speaking on my own behalf, I see myself as highly, highly skeptical, hard-headed, constantly-questioning, very deep and extremely alert, sensory-oriented person. I have also spent my entire 38 years of life on a passionate spiritual quest that has been my conscious intention since I was very small -- the 'research' of which is absolutely undying for me.

*****
I was careful not to name individuals. I simply stated, that in my experience, yes people sometimes do blindly adore a spiritual/motivational leader.

Comment by Sandra Lascher-Zires on April 12, 2009 at 12:25pm

Hi there,
I've been reading these posts and wanted to share. I hope my words are received in love.
First, my curiosity was piqued by Rain's link to Janaki. Thank you for posting it here. Interestingly, my own personal story jumped all over the place as I read it. In the end, I came away with a sense that I truly am my only guru. The answers that will most help me are within me. I feel detached, impartial and free. That aids me on my unschooling journey.
Jennifer, I appreciated your discription of the school. I have wanted to attend for many years. Without this conversation, I may have been confused about the fasting, donation of items, etc. Your explaiation helped me work out my thought before getting to the school. I hope I'm making sense here.:)
Also, from reading your posts to one another: I heard love, concern and honest inquiry. My experience with the printed word is that our filter system is what hears not our hearts.
I want to thank you all for insight and beauty.
Sandra

Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on April 12, 2009 at 10:40am

Oh, I want to add that we are leaving the house very soon and won't be back for much of the day but I will return later to read your response, Rain (and anyone else who would like to share).

Thank you again for your honesty, Rain. I am really valuing it.

Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on April 12, 2009 at 10:32am

Thank you, Rain. I hear you. Are you willing to respond to my requests for your suggestions as to how I could better respond to your bringing this subject to the table, here? I would really like to know.

Also, I am wondering if perhaps you read something other than what I wrote/read into what I wrote regarding my sincerely-asked questions for Sylvia in response to her post. Did you think that I was being sarcastic or something like that?

I am surprised to hear that you thought there was anything to defend, here. I have been experiencing it as sharing different perspectives for the sake of information and education -- this has been an educational experience for me. I am really appreciating that.

So, yes, to answer your question, my criteria for posting specifically in this group here at RUN was originally intended for exclusively discussing The Work as it relates to unschooling, as outlined in the group description above on the day I opened up this group. You are welcome to open a group against Katie, The Work and The School here at RUN if it would serve to do so. The Rick Ross website is also intended to be a place to discuss The Work as like-minded people -- those who are of like mind about The Work being a cult/dogma/abusive/etc. Janaki, too, set up an independent website for that purpose in which she does ask for feedback on her story.

I have read much of the Katie dissent for years now and always appreciate learning others' experiences but I am finding now that, 1 - I don't think that I am wanting to discuss gossip about Katie anymore, and since you are basing your entire perspective exclusively on other people's experiences of Katie and The School and have not attended her workshops personally, I then consider this conversation to be about gossip and that, 2 - I would like for this group to remain on topic. There are so many supportive environments to share dissent about Katie, The Work and The School and this is not one of them. And these are just my opinions.

Comment by Rain Fordyce on April 12, 2009 at 10:10am

Thank you for your questions and asking about my intentions.

I brought it to the board here the day I discovered these posts. They shocked me and I wanted to talk to others and open a discussion with others who are familiar with the work.

This has nothing really to do with unschooling. Is that your criteria for posting here? I like to post here to find other like-minded friends.

My feedback on your post... All I can share is how I felt.
I felt bullied after reading it.
I felt like going to Sylvia's defense.
I felt coming to my own.

Once I breathed and allowed time to pass, I realized that I felt the way it was written is manipulative, but not from you... only the way the school has done the same to you.

Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on April 12, 2009 at 9:55am

Thank you, Rain. I am grateful for your honesty.

I appreciate that you didn't want conflict. I feel that way too and, sometimes people disagree on things. It is ok.

I would like to respectfully ask you what your intention was in bringing controversial perspectives on Katie and The Work to the table for a group who's focus is on using The Work as it relates to unschooling our families. I have been thinking about the context of that for the duration of this experience and would sincerely like to understand your motive, if you're willing to share.


I would also like to request your feedback as to what I could do differently in my response to your bringing up a debate including elaborate links about Katie's character in this particular space at RUN. I am genuinely wanting to know what you would suggest that I could do differently as a student of The Work and a graduate of The School in my response to such a subject.

Thank you. I am glad that we are free to share our truths and invite you to hold nothing back.

Comment by Rain Fordyce on April 12, 2009 at 9:37am

Yes, Jennifer... I didn't want to create a conflict.
Since you have asked what I said was:

Knowing that you have been to the school and because of the kind of response you gave, I see how true those posts were. Clarity vs. Dogma.

Of course, I know your intentions are of service and kindness. I appreciate you and your journey.

smiles and joy,
Rain

Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on April 12, 2009 at 9:18am

Rain, I see now after replying that you have deleted your post that came before my last response. I would still love to receive your reply to my questions if you're willing. Thank you.

Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on April 12, 2009 at 9:16am

Oh, Rain. Thank you for your feedback. I will admit that I am really surprised to be received as a bully. Is it because of how much information I shared? I am so sorry. I feel very misunderstood. I can, however, relate to the "expert" and "authority" names because I do consider myself to be my own authority -- but only my own. I believe that I own that as just my own pretty well and am surprised to know that it is still unclear for you.

Is there anything that I can do differently in my communication that you can see? I would love to receive your feedback on that, Rain, if you're willing.

My intention was to present the perspective of my own experience -- nothing more than that at all because . . . how could I ever know anything else?

Am I correct that your opinion is that I have shown exactly what you were talking about? Do you mean the negative aspects? Do I understand you correctly, Rain?

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