The Work of Byron Katie and Unschooling

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Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on April 11, 2009 at 7:07pm

Now I am sitting her laughing because I am just really feeling the irony of this conversation about someone who, in my own experience, gives us her work so that we can find the guru within ourselves! At The School, we are greeted with a single rose and a card that says Welcome to The School of Wonderful, Wonderful You. She says You are the one you've been waiting for.

Oh, and also -- I wanted to share that the fasting exercise is so lovely when it is truly a surprise. It begins when you wake up in the morning and come down from your room, expecting the usual magnificent buffet that is served, and find instead . . . The Work for breakfast. :)

Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on April 11, 2009 at 6:27pm

It is refreshing to me to receive so many different perspectives. Thank you all for sharing.


I have a different experience of the secret/surprise aspects of The School. The fact that the curriculum consists of some different/some of the same exercises at each school based on the needs of the participants and the feedback from past participants is a reflection of the intuitive (and totally unschoolish) way of Katie's that is part of what people come to The School for. People signing up for The School are invited to trust the process that they're choosing to sign up for. The School is defined as an immersion program in the literature and I love how clear this description of The School is, which is on the front page of the school's information: http://www.thework.com/school.asp


It reads:

Another important part of the curriculum consists of exercises that Katie has developed over the years to help you live The Work within the School setting. Many of the exercises are interpersonal; others consist of encounters with yourself. These exercises address subjects such as fear and terror, death and dying, physical body and health, men and women, sex, prejudice, God, grief, relationships, diet and addictions, why we can't succeed and how to succeed. Occasional outings also belong in the category of exercises. They're challenging, fun, safe, and often mind-blowing. The surprise is part of the adventure. Wait and see!


I want to point out that the application for The School also specifically requests information on personal disabilities and illnesses in relation to special needs at The School so that the applicants can get what they need in the way of assistance. For example, during the fasting days, people who are diabetic or pregnant, for example, are accommodated. And, like I said before, for those participants who are not into the fasting and/or not feeling right about/trusting the program -- they are free to leave and go to their rooms, leave the hotel entirely, go home, go out to lunch, etc. My choice was that I trusted the process and it worked for me. But my trust was not "blind" -- it was based on constantly checking in with myself about whether or not it was true for me to participate in the various activities. For example, I held onto my cell phone, instead of taking a break from it for the duration of the program as suggested, because I needed to stay close to my children throughout my absence from our home. It was my commitment to being available to them and that came first for me. I never once experienced anything negative coming from others about my choice to do so.


As far as the "giving things away" exercise went -- Katie was totally clear in her wording that we were to gather something that was "meaningful" to us (not necessarily monetarily valuable) and that we would be wrapping it up and would never see it again. We were clearly invited not to participate in the exercise if we did not want to. She even repeated that sentence several times -- I'm guessing because of past experiences of people receiving it as orders of some kind. Those of us who chose to participate then did The Work on our thoughts about giving this special thing away and what that triggered for us. All of the items were then donated to people in need, which is customary for this specific exercise. Also, Katie was even kind enough to give us all the opportunity to retrieve our items if we felt strongly about it, but only after the exercise with its entire range of accompanying emotions was complete.


I did witness some people speaking and behaving as if things were being taken away from them (such as the part where the school suggested abstinence from distractions and addictive items and when the fasting exercise happened). It seemed that these peoples' beliefs were that they were "not allowed" to have something that Katie was not offering or wanting them to have at the moment. They could not recognize the gap in that thinking. But that is not Katie's doing -- people are always responsible for their own thoughts and feelings, even when in the presence of someone they may greatly admire. I did not witness anything even close to what I would describe as force going on there. In fact, it was just the opposite from that, in my experience. And, this is only my experience. As far as the secrecy of the fasting exercise -- we were not "sworn to secrecy", we were requested to not spoil the surprise for others. Right now, I am disclosing information about it because it is true for me to do so in my effort to share another first-hand perspective of Katie, The School and these exercises.


I am going to agree with Stephen Mitchell and say that I can really see how it is true that many schools of thought have come together throughout history and often seem to mimic each other. I have a different experience as the outcome of that, though, than it appears that Janaki is describing. I see it as affirmation and validation and as symbols of the oneness that everything is. In fact, I can honestly say that I would be more questioning of my interest in something that was completely unlike anything else I am interested in. I like seeing the continuity of things.


I remember meeting Janaki at one of Katie's workshops and she was a lovely person. I feel for her that she is struggling so much with her thoughts and relationship with Katie. It has happened for others, as well. My observation is that some people feel The Work serves them and some people do not. Katie herself even says often that "The Work is not for everyone". Rain, if I remember correctly, I believe that you said you have not attended The School for The Work. If that is correct, then I am noticing that the information you're sharing is not based on your own experiences. Yes, there are people who have had and do have negative experiences with Katie and The Work, just as there are people who find that it serves them. Have you read their stories, too? I ask because I notice that there is not any of that included in this discussion -- it seems to be only about our interpretations of Katie's writing and then this group of dissenters. Personally, first-hand experience is all that matters to me in order to make up my mind about things because I believe that each person's truth is their own. I have had very different experiences than people I know and love when it comes to our individual interpretations of things. There is nothing wrong or bad about this -- it is life. I believe that everyone is always right all of the time, for themselves.


In my experience, it is absolutely possible to seek and find flaws in people's words and actions. However, those views are coming from the projection of the mind that sees them. And when we are looking for something, I believe that we will definitely find it, sooner or later. That is mind. It constantly looks for the evidence to validate itself in its knowing. This is not intended to invalidate the views against Katie, it is to point out that one will certainly find what they are looking for in this wide world, precisely because they are looking for it, and my experience is that it's almost always instantly. To want to not know, to want to be in the Don't Know Mind, really needs to come from a place of personal conviction. If we don't have reason to want to be in the Don't Know Mind, reason that is true for us personally about a specific subject, then mind feels much more comfortable with Knowing. That knowing is fine, it is innocent, it just is. And the point of mentioning it is to ask the question -- Does it serve? That is all. It is an opportunity to awaken to something, to notice.


So, if one is looking for what is wrong then they will find it and . . . does it serve? Have they found what they were looking for? Because I believe that it is a friendly universe and everything serves in one way or another, everything teaches all of the time. And we get to decide what is true for us. We are truly free.


My experience in Katie's presence has been nothing but fierce, undying love. The first few times I saw her, I needed to really scrutinize her eyes, her face, her body language . . and everything she said. That was my need (I was born a die-hard skeptic) in the beginning of knowing her because I needed to see if I believed she was authentic or not. Not if she actually IS authentic, because I can never truly know that about another person. I can only know my story of her (it's true -- no two people have ever really met). So I can only share that story here, with all of you, and you can use the information as it serves you to do. That's all. But we're all here to have our own stories and to own them as such. There is not an end-all, be-all authority on anyone. It is enough work to know our own hearts and minds.


I do see Katie as a guru, but only because I believe that everyone is a guru. Literally. My thought on that is that either we are all gurus or none of us are . . . and Katie even reflects this concept, too, when she says that "Wisdom is absolutely equal" in her experience. When I am in Katie's presence, I love finding where we relate and agree on things, just like when I'm with friends. But, all the while, there is always a conscious awareness either in the back or the forefront of my mind that I am solely responsible for my opinions, words and actions . . including whether or not I agree with Katie and whether or not I follow her simple instructions.


The word inquiry being used to describe The Work is useful because inquiry means investigation and that is what The Work is about. The Work is also meditation. This does not mean that all inquiry and all mediation are The Work, but it does mean that all Work is inquiry and meditation. And that is just my truth. :)


My favorite thing about The Work is that it turns the power around from looking outside oneself to going inward. No, Katie did not corner the market on looking inward to find answers. And I love that it is universal nature to do so. How affirming. I absolutely dig the simplicity of The Work vs. other methods that I've used -- it's what works for me. What I love about Katie compared to other spiritual teachers is that she is so motherly and nurturing. I also love that she has had life experiences that I can strongly relate to as a woman and a mother. After trying many different things (that I also love), I love so much how The Work has become my favorite method for self-realization. I love Eckhart Tolle, too, for many of the same reasons, but I relate so much more to Katie because of her position in this life, so that is why I spend much more time with her teachings than his. I also love Katie's business-like manner about everything. I am like that too and can really identify with seeing everything as business -- it just works for me. I just love my story of her and that does not mean I have not felt triggered by her and done The Work on my thoughts about her, too. These are some of the reasons why I choose to learn from Katie and that is just what's right for me. That's all. If she does not 'do it' for others then they, too, are free. I trust that it serves us all to focus on the negative aspects of something for only as long as it is necessary for the purpose of creating clarity (personal understanding). Focusing on the negative, I've learned, helps me to find what I like and don't like; finding what I don't like shows me what I don't want -- providing clarity. But once I've got that clarity, I like to keep moving forward with my focus toward what I DO want.


The concept of mob rules is an interesting one for me to question. I am finding that it means nothing more than collective consciousness, which is the exact same thing as individual consciousness, for me. Nothing more unless I make it more. If I am finding myself more easily-influenced by a group of people sharing a thought or thoughts than a singular person with their thoughts then I get to question my story about why the quantity of people amplifies my impressionability. Is it because I am believing thoughts such as --

since they are ALL believing it, it must be true
there is only one of me and so many of them and that means that ____________
I don't want to be left behind/left out
It is possible to be left behind/left out
I want to belong/be part of the fun
fun/peace/joy/love is something that's outside of me
they all seem so happy and shiny and that must be because of their collective beliefs
I experience security when other people agree with me/I agree with other people
I am needing love/approval/appreciation


Whether or not we feel strongly influenced by a group of people or not, it still comes down to the fact that we are absolutely responsible for our own autonomy.


Sylvia, you said:

I've seen how conviction of a process/tool can - and often does -- lead to the elevation of the presenter. I tend to think that folks who blithely adore, without question, any guru/teacher get what they put it into -- that their blind devotion leaves them empty because they didn't do the research to really find their own authentic path to truth. One of the challenges for others can be that the most devoted followers also tend to be the most vocal. Add in the human tendency to paint with a very broad brush and it quickly becomes hard to know whom or what to believe.



Sylvia, can you absolutely know that folks blithely adore, without question, their spiritual teachers? Is it really true that their devotion is blind? Can you know that they didn't do their research and that what they are devoted to isn't their own authentic path to truth? Because, in speaking on my own behalf, I see myself as highly, highly skeptical, hard-headed, constantly-questioning, very deep and extremely alert, sensory-oriented person. I have also spent my entire 38 years of life on a passionate spiritual quest that has been my conscious intention since I was very small -- the 'research' of which is absolutely undying for me.


I can really relate to the sentiment in your last sentence. It is exactly for that reason that I love The Work. When I question my agreement with your last sentence, I find that it is far truer for me that I have spent my whole life searching far and wide for what I could feel was (seemingly) 'out there' somewhere. The funny thing to discover was that the existence of the truth was within myself all along! I got to turn it around and be my own sage! "Who and what to believe" is always and only about me -- that is my job. What others believe is not my business -- what a relief.

Comment by greenlee on April 11, 2009 at 12:26pm

I'm intrigued too, and thank you Rain for explaining a bit more...I appreciate it.

Gosh, I feel so....intrigued I guess Sylvia's word is also my word but also a little confused by that woman's experience of the school. I want to say I feel sorry that she had a negative experience, but I guess I am not because my feeling from her is that she took what benefit she could from it and she is ok. She seems very articulate and intuitive about her experience. What's curious to me is how I can read accounts of the school that have certain "staples" or "facts" in common, but the writer of the review has a slant to it & wants us to see it through that particular lens. (a very good one/positive one or a very negative one)

So, as the skeptic I am, I'm very glad to read all of the accounts I can, and I'm so glad you posted this Rain! I agree with you, that if I attended the school I would want to know the itinerary in advance. I would want to know that there would be surprise elements.

I'm trying to put myself in that place...and it's hard for me to see myself going without food and getting weak....giving up jewelry & ID's & whatnot...it's not something I personally understand. I can see the picture of it in my mind and I feel sorry for those who did that. I'm not sure why.

Comment by Rain Fordyce on April 11, 2009 at 11:00am

Hi Greenlee,
sorry I missed the second part of your question.
Here is the link http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,67778

Secrecy is a part of brainwashing as well as fasting, long days, leaving people in a perpetual state of unknowing, discouraging outside contact and confessions.

Now, some of this is retreat work... I understand. I just never would go to a retreat of this kind without knowing what to prepare for...

Thank you for asking for clarity.
smiles,
Rain

Comment by Rain Fordyce on April 11, 2009 at 10:52am

Thank you Sylvia. I love what you wrote. Thank you for "the human tendency to paint with a very broad brush" I love that!
smiles,
Rain

Comment by Sylvia Toyama on April 11, 2009 at 10:49am

I'm intrigued to read these posts and the links shared.

I have found The Work to be a useful tool -- well the first three questions mostly, the fourth question has always bothered me, so I typically leave it off. At the same time, my own past experiences have resulted in my personal choice never to put anyone on a pedestal.

I've seen how conviction of a process/tool can - and often does -- lead to the elevation of the presenter. I tend to think that folks who blithely adore, without question, any guru/teacher get what they put it into -- that their blind devotion leaves them empty because they didn't do the research to really find their own authentic path to truth. One of the challenges for others can be that the most devoted followers also tend to be the most vocal. Add in the human tendency to paint with a very broad brush and it quickly becomes hard to know whom or what to believe.

It helps me to remember is that even the most eloquent speaker/presenter/discoverer of anything is only a human being, with all the flaws one can reasonably expect in a human. Adoration can be heady stuff, and sometimes things get exaggerated, then take on a life of their own.

Comment by Rain Fordyce on April 11, 2009 at 9:20am

Hi greenlee,

Thank you so much for your interesting questions to ponder!

The word "tool" is simply a word. I use it to describe something you use to move into another state. Tools are EFT, radical forgiveness, 4 agreements, as well as massage, acupuncture and many others.

You are using the word inquiry. However inquiry is not 4 questions and a turnaround. Inquiry is a word and it is being used to describe "the work."

Yes, like you, from the books and cd's I never got much more than it was a tool to use to stop the suffering in your mind. However, there were parts of Katie's story I felt were curious. As I talk about in my previous post.

As a coach my approach is to share as many tools as I can. I tell my clients they will benefit from having a "toolbox" to use what works for them when stress, suffering and overwhelm sets in. The work is a tool, however some of my clients have been so excited that they want to go to the school.

This is all just information to keep in mind, as my goal is always to trust yourself and to blaze your own authentic trail.
smiles and joy,
Rain

Comment by greenlee on April 11, 2009 at 9:12am

I cannot speak about the school as I haven't attended. I would be curios to learn more about these psychological techniques you speak of at the school. What did you experience Rain? It sounds scary.

Comment by greenlee on April 11, 2009 at 9:07am

Rain, I have always thought of the work as even less than a tool...that it was four questions and a turnaround. Inquiry, and nothing more.

Are you saying that you felt it was supposed to be more than that, or that others do/did?

I never got that from any of the books or disks that I have listened to.

Comment by Rain Fordyce on April 11, 2009 at 8:09am

Ideas to question:

Secrecy of the school.
--It's not the fast. It's not telling you about the fast.
--It's "sworn to secrecy" (from the report) to not tell anyone else what goes on so as to "not ruin it for them"

Mob rules
--Yes, there is a reasons there is a term for it. Groups are extremely powerful. People go to the school for certification to become a facilitator as well as inner healing. The website shows it as a place to change your life. This will bring in many people looking to find themselves all while having an "unquestioned mind." Even coaches I coach, doubt themselves in a crowd of those who seem to be in, on the spiritual "know." The mob rules will dictate what people do, and will feel compelled to follow the ideas put forth from the school.

I guess my take is that "the work" is a tool and nothing more. This tool does not make Katie special more than you or me. And there are flaws (that over time became untruths) in her story, not only from what I shared in those 2 posts, but I have a close friend who worked with her years ago who had told me similar stories of yelling and cruelty by Katie.

Katie is an amazing woman, but she is human, not a guru and the secret her business tries to keep undercover is that she has flaws... (for example: "I haven't been angry in 15 years.") My experience of the work and of those of my clients is that doing the work will not end your life of having flaws, it is simply a powerful tool to open your mind to perceptions.

And by the way... if you just read the chapter on Ken Keyes, you might think about the story Katie's business (I am not sure if this was her idea) shares about "not reading any spiritual or self help books before that fateful day.


http://janakisstory.wordpress.com/chapter-22/

http://www.theworkingcompany.nl/Ken_Keyes_Jr.pdf

This is all a good lesson for me. For I also have a tool that seem to come from no where last summer, that is changing my clients lives, and is getting reviews such as "This is amazing" and "I have never felt this way before." I already have 4 coaches who want to become a facilitator and two different women who have asked me to do retreats, if they organize it. I understand how it can all happen so fast. I understand how you can start to feel special, afterall people tell you you are! The tool is just that... a tool, it doesn't make me special it just offers me a chance to help others and myself.

What I have heard from the school tells me they are wanting more than to share the work.... they are using brainwashing and other psychological techniques to create devotees.

And that is exactly what they've done.

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