The Work of Byron Katie and Unschooling

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Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on April 10, 2009 at 8:49pm

Greenlee, I can relate to so much of what you are saying. And, yes, that group thing . . . peer pressure . . it can be very strong in an unquestioned mind. I can imagine that, if I were believing that I would be rejected for not conforming, and I really wanted to be part of the connection of that group (i.e. the love of Katie's community, for example), then I might pressure myself to 'go along' for the sake of my motive. And it either works or it doesn't. But the key is for me to awaken to the fact that this is a choice I've made and then to ask myself, "Is it true for me to choose this in the future? Is it working for me?"

On the subject of being "forced" or "not allowed" to do something, I can see how, if I were raised in an environment where I was "required" to do what I was told or else I would be punished/unloved, which I was, and I was not in the habit of questioning my beliefs, which I am now -- if I were still BELIEVING those unquestioned concepts -- then I can see how having such an empowered woman such as Katie giving me instructions/"telling me what to do" could trigger me to pressure myself to conform as a result. I would not even recognize my own autonomy in the equation. I would not see that I have my own power to simply say "No" if it were true for me to do so.

Of course, this is a reason why I love unschooling my children. I don't punish -- I just live my truths. And my children get to maintain their intact self-empowerment and self-esteem that is their birthright. That doesn't mean that there are not undesirable consequences to their actions sometimes. That would be the way of this friendly universe -- cause & effect, one of the great laws that teaches the way of things. And yet they are free to decide what are the pros and cons of their decisions and then experiment with things and learn from those choices.

Comment by greenlee on April 10, 2009 at 6:19pm

Jennifer, as always, you are so insightful.

I think you really hit on what I love about the work so much - that I finally understand what I am responsible for, and that is, everything in my life. It is so poignant to me that the path to taking responsibility for one's life can be modeled by watching others take responsibility for their lives. It's kind of how I feel about radical unschooling - that instead of trying to live my child's life for them, I model how to live by living my own life in the way I think best. If I would like my children to be happy, to love life, to pursue what they enjoy, etc, I'd better be doing it for my own life. If I cannot be happy how could I think my child would know how to do it? :) So, if Katie runs a "school" and she wants to run it however she likes, it is perfectly fine in my mind to do so. She's not running a vacation or sight seeing tour, she's running a school where people can come and learn about the work. I am curious why people would complain about things lacking at the school when she seems pretty clear about what is provided and what is not. I see her taking responsibility for her life and an invitation to me if I would like to do the same.

I think this lens or filter we often experience things through is pretty powerful. It's something I've been exploring because I have old habits & beliefs that have been falling away when I "remove" my old filter. I like the idea of literal listening.

What do you think about the notion of a group mentality kind of thing? I wonder if people who went to an event and felt "forced" to do something were not only looking through their own particular filter, but also looking at how others were fasting and thought: gosh, I should be doing this too. Or, I'm expected to do this. I wonder if this is something they created in their minds...and I wonder why they felt pressure to do so. Was it just the fact of many people doing it? I can imagine how that could happen. Do we look at others doing something and feel obligated? Is this what happens in cults? For the record, this is sort of how I feel about organized religion. LOL But...what is coercion? Are there people who are signing up for the school who are feeling very vulnerable & suggestive and then arriving to this radical place where they get confused & upset? There's that filter again.

Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on April 10, 2009 at 5:10pm

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, Greenlee. You wrote -- My guess is it would be impossible to meet everyone's expectations when running this sort of thing. which is interesting to me because I don't see Katie even attempting to meet anyone's expectations at her events. I see her letting people own their own and the responsibility for it. After all, The Work is about taking 100% responsibility for ourselves.

It is always so amazing to me when I hear/read people saying that they were 'forced' to do things like fast or walk or give something up. I have attended several of Katie's events, including The School, and not ever once experienced being forced to do anything. I've also heard Katie clarify that it is not possible for anyone to force anyone to do anything and watched her demonstrate this physically, even, and . . . it is just awesome to witness her true freedom. I've even seen her do it with a retired soldier who had pushed the buttons and pulled the triggers of war as he was "ordered" to do.

People sometimes say that they were forced to fast but they were always 100% FREE to walk right over to the multiple hotel cafes and restaurants and purchase some food if they wanted to, not to mention leave the building entirely of their own accord and roam the city of LA or otherwise and its thousands of eateries.

Sorry to get so wordy. In my experience, many people hear things differently than they're said. Of course, this is about the filter of our thoughts and stories and the challenge of literal listening, which Katie teaches about, too. That communication tool alone has been indescribably supportive for me. One example of misinterpretation that I see sometimes in Katie's presence is people hearing her requests and suggestions as demands. It is amazing to me to witness because, if you listen to her literally, you can hear that she is simply saying what is true for her and then inviting others to follow the simple instructions. Or not. We are always, always free to decline the invitation. For some, though, what Katie says turns into something very powerful and insistent. What I can see is that this is simply how they react to Katie when they believe their thoughts about her. We can either own our perceptions or not but they exist and create, trigger & inspire -- either way. Like rabbits having babies, Katie calls it. This is a clear illustration of the cause & effect of our own thinking.


Rain, do you have some personal concerns in this area?

Comment by greenlee on April 10, 2009 at 3:14pm

Rain, that was indeed interesting!!! I'm going to really sit down and take some time with all this. I want to read it more closely when I have more time.

For now though, I do have some thoughts. First off, I really feel for anyone who has come out of an experience feeling so badly. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, and I have the deepest respect for their experiences & their feelings about the work and the events they attended. I've never attended any of Katie's events, though have wanted to. Reading these stories & comments have fueled my interest! :) I'd so love to attend the school and find out for myself how it can be experienced. One day.... :)

I know that I would not do anything I wasn't comfortable with...unless of course, I was forced. I might do it then. LOL But, I am a skeptic by nature and I try to approach everything with common sense. Does it make sense to me to deny my body food? No, not really, so I would not be open to fasting. I don't feel well when I have accidentally fasted and the thought of forcing my body to do a walk when I had not nourished it with foods sounds ridiculous. By the same token, if someone suggested to me that I walk over to some homeless people and interact with them, I probably wouldn't do that either. If someone suggested I give up my jewelry or vitamins or really anything, I would need a good reason and I might just giggle a bit and say I'm fine as I am.

It seems like in life there are always others who believe they know what others should do or shouldn't do...and never have I seen it more pervasive than in group context. I guess that's why I avoid groups of anything if I can. Perhaps the school is no different but I do not know. Again, I feel for anyone who came to the school expecting to be cared for in other ways, or who had expectations that could not be met. My guess is it would be impossible to meet everyone's expectations when running this sort of thing.

Reading Janakai's comments brought one thing to my mind, and that was that I have long thought it would be difficult to work for Katie. LOL I don't think I could do it. I imagine her to be as ruthless in business as she is with her truths...and I'm fairly content being my own boss when it comes to earning money & work....so, I would not be a good candidate for employment with Katie. Janakai sounds like every other worker who doesn't like their boss or the way things are run in their company. I do not say that to discredit her - rather, I admire her for her strength & ability to continue to look inside and find out what's true for her. Still, I hear things like this from friends and family about their work and I always think: I wonder if it's time to change jobs? :)

So, those are my first thoughts but I reserve the right to change them entirely as I explore, and as Jennifer says...whileI stay open to it all.

Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on April 10, 2009 at 2:13pm

Thank you for posting those, Rain. I have read those two links before and heard from several others their stories of dissent with The Work. I have found it to really serve me to be totally open to all experiences and opinions of Katie and The Work. When I hear about these negative experiences, I can really see what the people are saying, I can really go there with them. At the other end, I can clearly see that the story they share is their story and I get to ask myself if it is true or not that I agree with them, while absolutely respecting their Truth, which is my job.


Ultimately, I find that The Work and my story about it either work for me or they don't, and I get to question whatever would cause me stress about The Work and Katie herself . . and be left with less of a story, I notice. That is my experience of it. I find myself feeling energized from it, so it's working for me and I'll decide to keep it until I don't. I am open. Reading experiences like this teach me to stay open.

Comment by Rain Fordyce on April 10, 2009 at 1:11pm

I found some interesting posts out there in the internet world about Byron Katie... thought some of you might appreciate it.

http://janakisstory.wordpress.com/

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,67778

I would love to hear your thoughts...
Rain

Comment by Sandra Lascher-Zires on March 31, 2009 at 11:33am

Hello,
Its great to see there's a place to ask BK related questions.

Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on January 4, 2009 at 9:32pm

Happy new year, friends.

Here are some inspiring words on loving what is from Katie's recent newsletter:


"You don’t need to know who you are, honey, no one knows who they are. The simple way is to know that the thought believed in the moment identifies you. Also, everyone else can identify you and you don’t have to bother. What is happiness but a state of no wanting? What really is, is enough to want, because wanting what is already, doesn’t require wanting or waiting for what you want. It is all given already in the moment, recognized or not. Can we receive all that is in this moment, lovingly take it in and recognize the unlimited generosity that is its nature? That is the giving to ourselves, the giving back. What a wonderful now this now is!"



~ http://www.byronkatie.com/newsletter_ja09.html ~

Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on December 10, 2008 at 10:43am

Oh, also ~ there are some sub-questions to The Work that can help when one is feeling stuck with the main questions. Pam, please let us know if you would like to be facilitated here. I would be honored to assist.

Comment by Jennifer Ironstone on December 10, 2008 at 10:32am

Rain ~ thank you for posting that. It's such a good idea to post examples of the process.


Pam ~ I want to point out that the Turnarounds and the three examples you give for each need to be authentic for you.

Sometimes, especially for those new to The Work, it can take some time to find the answers to question #4 (Who would you be without that thought?) as it is about creative thinking/visualization which is like a muscle that needs to be exercised and strengthened.

So I encourage you to just get very still with the questions and then to make sure that the Turnarounds are absolutely true for you. The Work is all about what is true for you.

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